Nah; by then the cyborgs, uploaded personalities and uplifted animals will be all prejudiced against AIs and alien/Terran hybrids.
Yup I didn’t picture the terminator, but the Futurama scene of Nixon remaining president and robots taking over. “why in the heck did we argue over frivolous matters when roombot was planning our demise?”
I hadn’t thought about them for a while, until I saw this thread. I had o think about interracial relationships in my social circle to even ID how I felt (#1).
The difference is exactly as I explained with the remaining portion of the sentence and idea. There is no real importance to segregating races of people, other than to satisfy your personal preference.
If you want to get into the actual value of culture, I would start somewhere along the lines of its benefit to a greater society, as it assists in creating a synergy between peoples. We can attribute this, historically, as one of many survival mechanisms-- this more demonstrates an actual value, in the sense that it represents an intrinsic worth to our collective well-being, which is distinct from your “preference”. However, even in this example, there is nothing actually “lost” when culture changes, as it does so in order to serve the greater will of a society.
Yes, of course I do. Following this logic, there was also the idea in this country, which dictated that women were unable to vote, and that certain races were 1/3 of others, among a host of other bad ideas. That was part of a broader cultural belief at one point, too, which people fought to cling to. It’s one thing to blindly adhere to culture, and another to preserve it for more substantial, and hopefully beneficial, reasons.
Right now, what you’re saying is that two people who can love each other, shouldn’t engage, if their culture/races are different. I’m struggling to find the significance of the value in that, especially when its something easily remedied, by means of a personal decision.
The point was that humans and bears don’t make for good analogies, in the context of this discussion.
This doesn’t make sense as a response to my idea, which specifically stated that as there is more variation among people in a certain location, that they have a greater tendency to mix with more frequency. Over time, it becomes socially acceptable, which lowers one of *your *major hurdles, which you described as an inability to find a “suitable mate”.
Actually, the burden of proof should be on you, as you’re challenging established knowledge, not by me, but by our own US census bureau and a host of respectable publications and sociological study which further analyze such data.
I cited anecdotal examples (heck, look at the poll in the thread), pointed to a few major cities on the more populated east coast, as well as the fact that by law, interracial marriage is legal (*). The country has gradually shifted in what it believes is socially acceptable, and we continue to see those shifts.
http://2010.census.gov/news/releases/operations/cb12-68.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204880404577226981780914906.html
There is no real “latter situation”, because part of the evolution of culture, is the fact that change brings a shift in thinking, a loss of some ideas, birth to new ones, etc. for what ultimately serves the people. This is a partial attribute of cultural shift.
So am I the only one who’s met a lot of ugly mixed people?
You need to make a tumblr for that.
lol.
I’ve never met a lot of ugly mixed people, but some strange-looking ones, yeah. And most don’t even register as anything special on my radar.
Photos with the caption RACEFAIL, maybe?
There are lots of plain and fugly mixed people running around, but unless they are walking hand-in-hand with their parents, most strangers don’t see them as mixed.
I had to go with, “I always ogle.”
What I really needed was option 1.5, “I notice them as standing out but don’t have a big feeling either way.”
I hate to bring this up, as everyone is being so civil, and this may remove some of that civility. But brazil84’s previous discussions on race are relevant to this conversation. He says he sees value in races existing. But he’s also admitted that he sees the races in hierarchy, and not as equal. Asians are smarter than White people who are smarter than…who are smarter than Black people.
So what he’s wanting to maintain is not culture, but a caste-based society. He’s really advocating for a lack of equality. Because otherwise, if he truly believes that intelligence is genetically determined, then he should be also advocating for racial mixing so that the deficiencies of certain races will be eliminated.
And, BTW, I’m surprised I haven’t seen one position that I often hear: that people feel sorry for the kids, because they will find it hard to fit in both race-based cultures. And there is a little of something to this. As pointed out upthread, people do tend to still freak out if you don’t look like the race you identify as. There’s still racism inherent in the system.
But anti-racism is so widespread in our culture that I don’t think it’s really a concern. Except in places that are still backwards about race and culture. But it’s not going to get any better if people from other races who would otherwise marry refuse to do so–that reinforces the prejudice.
No. While I’d never say it out loud, my SO’s mixed kids are … it’s sad.
Interracial couples are a dime a dozen over here. I’m white American, the wife is an ethnic-Chinese Thai from Bangkok. I see the subject of offspring has come up. All the really big actors and entertainers in Thailand nowadays are mixed race. People would encourage us to have children just so they could grow up to be famous actors and support us in our old age. Plus they all said the kids would be cute to look at. No one could understand why we didn’t want children. Of course, we’re too old now even if we changed our minds, so people stopped encouraging it years ago.
I notice and think “Yay!” because I live in a pretty rural area, where the general population is still pretty white. I’m happy to see diversity making inroads. My husband, my older son, and I are all white, but my second son is genetically Central American. I think about this topic sometimes, and I hope that any crap about interracial couples will be largely history by the time it affects him. (He’s two.)
My faith has been shaken, though. A good friend of mine (Irish/Polish Catholic mix) is in a serious relationship with a Mexican guy, and he met the family recently. A very young family member informed her tonight that people with white skin should only go out with other people with white skin. It’s pretty clear to me that his parents have been saying that at home. They’re in their early thirties, and the dad at least was not raised in a home where that would have been acceptable. But wow, there it is.
Yeah. I thought his leg belonged to a different person at first. :eek:
Only if intelligence is the be-all end-all of evaluating human groups is there a “hierarchy.”
But I do agree that as long as there are distinct races and ethnic groups, some will be more successful than others, particularly in multi-cultural parts of the world. That’s not an ideal situation, but it’s a side effect of my desire that distinct races and ethnic groups continue to exist.
No, I just think that having distinct races and ethnic groups is more important than eliminating deficiencies as you put it. Why is it somehow an intolerable situation that some groups are smarter than others? Are you able to sleep at night knowing that there are people out there who are smarter and more successful than you? If so, why should it be any different for groups?
I personally would like to have a cure for cancer. And if it’s a Tamil Brahmin who happens to do it, that’s fine by me. Even though I’m not a Tamil Brahmin and Tamil Brahmins are smarter on average than people in my group. And even if it means that people in my group will win fewer Nobel prizes.
So by your definition of the word “value,” it is never possible to value something for its own sake?
Well there you go. I put a good deal of value on continuing to have distinct ethnic, cultural, religious, and racial groups. Particularly on having my own group continue in existence. If you prefer to call that a “preference,” that’s fine. It’s my preference and a lot of people have a similar preference.
By the way, you did not answer my earlier question. I would like an answer so that I can understand your position:
In the Polar Bear example, one can imagine a situation a few generations before Polar Bears are completely assimilated and disappear. At that time, there will be a small number of Polar Bears; a large number of Brown Bears; and a medium number of mixed Bears. In your view, does that situation have more “actual diversity” than a situation where Brown Bears and Polar Bears are distinct, separate groups?
So it sounds like you concede that there are in-born sexual preferences, but your position is that those preferences never intersect with race in any way. Insofar as people prefer one race over another, it’s purely a matter of social conditioning.
Do I understand you correctly?
What exactly is the “established knowledge” I am challenging?
And again, do you agree that you have offered no evidence (besides your own wishes and desires) concerning a change in the disparity between black/white and white/black couples? And no evidence whatsoever concerning a change in the disparity between white/Asian and Asian/white couples?
Ok, so it sounds like your position is that it’s silly to try to preserve a distinct culture from assimilation because that culture will inevitably change anyway. Do I understand you correctly?
And is there ever a situation where it’s reasonable or appropriate or desirable to try to preserve some X even though that X will ultimately disappear or change beyond recognition? If so, in what kinds of situations is it reasonable or appropriate or desirable to try to preserve that X?
Done. Look forward to my RACEFAIL Tumblr in 2013.
Yeah, I guess maybe some people just don’t realize how many mixed raced people there are out there, because not everyone looks obviously mixed. The guy I married was half white and you’d never have known it by looking at him; he just looked like a black guy. He was just okay looking, for the record. I reckon because I’ve personally known a whole shitload of mixed people (a lot in my family as well) that I’ve never had this silly idea that by simply mixing races, you produce more attractive children. Not really. At least in my experiences, mixed people as a group are no better looking than anyone else. But I don’t know anything, so feel free to disregard my humble opinion.
What’s your group? How do you define its boundaries?
And where do you live?
I don’t think mixed races automatically means beautiful children either - that’s why I worry about having ugly kids. People keep telling me we are going to have pretty children, like Maggeie Q. One can only hope.
I do think that when biracial kids ARE pretty, they are stunning.