What do you think of people who are chronically late, esp. to work?

Wow, such vitriol!

I’m one of those people that tend toward being late more often than early to work.

My aim each day isn’t to be late of course, it’s to be on time. I’m paid to work from 8am until 4:30pm. That means I don’t have to be there until 8am. If I walk through the door at 8:01, chill the hell out. While everyone else is still dicking around in the break room with their coffee or chatting about last nights episode of Survivor or whatever at 8:05, I’m already working.

I leave my home every morning at the same time. I’ve been working at this place long enough to have my entire morning schedule down to a science. Some days I catch the lights, some days I don’t. That means a roughly 4 minute swing in my arrival time. Some days I’m there at 7:58, some days I’m there at 8:02.

So obviously the answer is to leave earlier, right? Wrong. Know why? Because when I get there at 7:50 and begin working, I don’t get paid for it. Hell, I don’t even get credit for it (we noticed you were 10 minutes early yesterday, so it’s okay that you’re 2 minutes late today–it all balances out).

There is no one left hanging because I’m a couple of minutes late 2 or 3 times a week. No calls are missed; no appointments are not kept; no money is lost in any way shape or form; no one is inconvenienced in the slightest (except for those asses with the pet peeves who can’t tolerate it that everyone doesn’t think like they do).

In most things outside of work, I am an on time person. My goal is always to be on time. Sometimes I’m a few minutes late, sometimes I’m a few minutes early. The only time I make a concerted effort to be early is when it is something extremely important (final exam, court date, etc.), or when other people are depending upon me. In a casual, social situation: I’ll get there when I get there and if you can’t deal with that, then not only are you an uptight asshat, but you should probably just lose my number.

Funny this should come up now. I’m also habitually 15 or 20 minutes early. I can still remember a couple of friends arguing about whether I was late or not because I showed up only 3 minutes early when I was meeting them. On the other hand, the two other IT guys in my company, my best friend, and the man I love dearly are all habitually late. I also had a bit of a blow up with two other friends last Saturday when they called me at 10:30 to tell me they hadn’t left yet and it would be about another hour and a half to get to my place because they hadn’t left yet. We were supposed to meet at 10:00.

My coworkers’ being late doesn’t really bother me. We’re all on salary, I’ve got a pretty good idea of when they’ll show up, and we rarely have anything that time-sensitive. If we do, someone is there and any of us will work late or work through lunch if we need to.

On the other hand, I haven’t been happy when a coworker’s lateness has resulted in extra work for me. To give you an example, a few years ago, a coworker was supposed to cover the reception desk starting at 8 because our regular receptionist was on an assignment. We had someone booked to come in for an interview at 8:30. When my coworker failed to show up on time, our HR person and I agreed I’d stop what I was doing and move to the front desk at 8:15 to cover. Unfortunately, the person arrived for her interview at 8:10, leaving me scrambling a bit. I didn’t like the impression it gave of our company. My coworker came in about an hour later. Her car didn’t start that morning and it didn’t occur to her to call in and tell anyone. In her defense, she was very young in mindset, even though she was in her 20s.

Last Saturday’s situation forced me to look at things. You see, I became angry, nearly started a thread asking if I was being unreasonable, and called my best friend to vent. (My best friend is usually 20 minutes late; she agreed that 2 hours is unreasonable.) I was raised on the same principle my grandfather raised my mother: “If you’re not 15 minutes early, you’re late.” I was also raised to certain standards of lady-like behaviour. By those standards, if you’re expecting guests, everything must be ready for them 10 or 15 minutes before they arrive and you cannot do anything which cannot be easily and immediately interupted on their arrival. This pretty much limits me to reading or simple knitting (although I admit I do play a certain video game as a time killer). If you’re going somewhere, which we were, you must be at a point when all you need to do when they arrive is put on your coat and shoes and grab your purse. As a result, I find waiting for people incredibly boring! I was also told that if I wasn’t where I needed to be on time when I was meeting my family that I would be left. I believed that threat. As a result, when dealing with friends who are chronically late, I get into a “How come I have to wait for everyone but no one has to wait for me?” mentality, even though I know the latter’s not the case. Now that I’ve sorted it out, I am working on it, but I’m still happier being early than late. I don’t think that will change, but I hope I’ll become easier on myself while I’m waiting for friends.

I’m a morning person, as anyone who notices my post times can tell you. I have worked 2nd and 3rd shift type hours; I even used to regularly do a bit of work which lasted from 10:30 pm to 1 or 2 am, when I was working in Hawaii, and there were a few mornings when, after doing that, I’d have to be back at work at 5:30 or 6 am, and be alert, bright, and cheerful to boot since I was welcoming tourists to Hawaii at night and seeing them onto their transportation to the airport at the end of their stay in the morning. It wasn’t easy or pleasant, but it was part of the job and I did it, being on-site and ready to go at least 10 minutes early. Punctuality was a key part of the job and it would have mattered even if I hadn’t been incredibly neurotic in those days (“The bus is here, the tourists are here, but where’s the tour escort?!”) I know it was tough. So was walking backwards, counting tourists, and keeping up a running travelogue in Japanese all at the same time. It came with the job.

Look, to those of you who are chronically late for social functions, please understand that when you are late, especially if we’re meeting somewhere other than at my place, you’ve left me with nothing to do but sit or stand around, maybe read a book, and generally get bored and impatient. I try to be patient; I’m not very good at it. Meanwhile, I’m assuming you’re doing something more interesting, even if it’s only fighting traffic, which is less boring that waiting, even if it is more frustrating. I try to be easy going, but it isn’t always easy, especially if it’s cold, there’s nowhere to sit, and I forgot to bring a book with me. I’m also reluctant to leave the area in case during the 5 minutes I’m gone, you turn up, decide I’m not there, and leave without me. Lest someone accuse me of being unrealistic, this actually happened to me with my family the Thanksgiving before last! Please, show a little mercy to the chronically early and impatient?

CJ

[interesting hijack]This reminds me of a website that I vistied recently.* Why did I visit it? Because these idiots had stuck up a big giant billboard on the western freeway.
It’s called the Zero Movement. This is their motto:

There weren’t enough rolleyes. Things they discuss include:
[ul]
[li]Why don’t women consider everything small “soooooo cute”?[/li][li]why can’t deadlines be flexible?[/li][li]Why can’t chick flicks be: guy meets girl, guy gets girl, guy watches footy, girl gets snacks?[/li][/ul]I would think these guys were in high school by their mentality, but they had the money to put up a billboard on one of the busiest roads into the city.

I think all these latesters must be following the “zero movement”. [/ih]

*[super]I was going to pit the fact they allow you to comment on their site but will only make the comments public that are positive about them. And the fact their site is incredibly immature, but I’m just not vitriolic enough.[/super]

Miss Manners or one of the other etiquette queens says “NEVER EARLY and never more than 15 minutes late” to a social engagement. The reason is that you don’t want to put your hostess on the spot. Personally, I’m ready for guests anywhere from 1/2 to an hour early, so if they drop the etiquette ball, I won’t make them uncomfortable.

If I arrive early, I drive around the block until the agreed-upon time. Or you can call and say you’re “a little ahead of schedule, would it be ok to show up a few minutes early?” You really don’t want to catch your hostess in rollers or her underwear.

You know what really peeves me? Colleagues who get in early and then leave early because they got in early, leaving me alone. Sorry, but our coverage hours are our coverage hours, and if there’s a major problem, I can’t easily call you back because you live an hour away, so it’d be two hours before you’d be back. Whereas I live 5-10 minutes away (depending on traffic), so getting me back isn’t an issue. Unfortunately, the mamager has allowed this to occur for a sufficient length of time that it is now covered by Custom and Practice.

I believe that chronic lateness with regard to employment is a passive/aggressive action. That is the way the employee is exerting their “power”. I’ve found passive/aggressive behavior in almost all aspects of work. The tech that refuses to turn in timecards or service reports, the clerical worker that begins her primary duty at 10, when it’s known that the duty should be done by 10. It’s a matter of people disrespecting their jobs, IMO. They’re not happy and this is a way they can shit on the company without getting into real trouble.

There was a guy like this where I used to work. It was beneath him to turn in a time card to the Admin when they were due. Every other Friday, she would have all of the time cards except for his and she’d have to run all over the place looking for him. When she found him, she’d have to stand over his shoulder and make him fill it out while he acted like a superior dickhead making comments about how she was wasting his oh-so-important time.

Finally, long past the time when she should have done this, she let it slide and didn’t remind him. He never turned in the time card and, as a result, didn’t get paid. You should have seen how pissed off he got. It was one of the funniest things I ever saw in my career.

Guess how many times after that he didn’t turn in his time card on time: ZERO.

As I said earlier. Selfish creeps like him only understand sticks, not carrots. Beat them with a stick enough times and they will comply.

I don’t know if I buy this, when I was 22-25 I worked as a HVAC mechanic for a hospital. I had to be in by 7:00 am and I had the worse boss I ever had. In almost 4 years I was late once. I did not like the job, it wasn’t what I was planning to do with my life and my boss was a complete idiot. I was on time 99.9% of the time. I was usually a little early and I often stayed late. (Boy I miss getting paid for overtime).

While I am not overjoyed with my current job, it is fairly good and my boss is mostly very reasonable. He is also a nice guy that makes me feel even shittier for my attendance problems because it directly affects him.
I have many nights where I just don’t fall asleep at a reasonable hour and I oversleep. Then if one thing goes wrong in getting ready to go or during a 42-mile commute, I am late.

This is not a defensible situation, I don’t expect or ask for special treatment, I will never be a model employee, but they still appreciate my work after 6+ years and I guess I found the right job for me.

I really just can’t get my sleep patterns worked out; it is not passive aggressive reaction or anything else. Just shitty sleep patterns. The strangest thing is even when I use to worked out regularly my sleep patterns were no better. So short of going on sleeping pills, I am not sure what would work for me. I am sure that at least some of the other perpetually late are in my boat.

My best bet is to stay at my job where they at least tolerate my problems. Of course I am hoping for a job near my home with an 8:30 or 9:00 start time, which would also help greatly.

BTW: I am not late to appointments or anything else later in the day. Just early morning stuff.

Jim

We had a chronic late guy in our group who would breeze in around 10:30 or 11:00 and claim he’d make it up by staying later. (Of course when I happened to stay late, somehow he’d never be around).

His rationale was “well, there’s never anything to do at 10AM anyway, so why should I have to be in at that time?” The answer - “there’s nothing to do at 10AM, dickhead, because it was already done by the people who get here on time.”

I think this is a pretty common situation… late people really think that mornings are slow just because the morning work is usually taken care of by the time they arrive.

We never could get the guy to show up on time, and he had so much knowledge it would have taken years to train his replacement. So his fate is never to be promoted or moved into anything more interesting than what he’s doing. There again is a lesson for the chronically late… you might think your employer is “cool with it” but in fact they’ve already given up on you and put you on a dead-end track.

Being a light sleeper myself, I sympathize.

But this rather plainly says that you consider sleep to be primary, with your job secondary. You could take a big step toward inverting that simply by getting a loud and reliable alarm clock, placing it out of reach of your bed, and accepting the idea that some nights you won’t get all the sleep you’d like.

I find that a night of poor sleep makes it much more likely I’ll sleep well the following night, whereas sleeping late usually results in going to bed late and another sleepless night.

You know that’s a good point, I actually used to keep the alarm clock on the other side of the room. :smack:
I got out of the habit when I got married and forgot I use to do it.
Feeling very sheepish right now. I think I will go move my alarm clock and turn it up to max. :smack: :smack: :smack:

Now if only I could go back to drinking coffee so at least when I am zombied out from lack of sleep I can be more alert. I am still faced with a 42 mile highway commute.
Jim

Without disputing the essential wrongness of being late, and while acknowledging that things like moving your alarm clock across the room are good ideas, I’d just like to mention again that for some people, mornings, and waking up in general, are a serious problem.

I’ve been known to sleep through two alarm clocks (both of which are loud enough to wake my downstairs neighbor), one ten inches from my head, and the other across the room, **and ** a wake-up call. I’m not talking about ignoring them, or hitting the snooze button. I never heard them. They made not the slightest impression on me. Again, not proud of this. Just a fact.

As for getting a second shift job, I’d love to, if I could find a second-shift job that pays what my current job pays. I never have, and that’s why I struggle with this every day. I sometimes fail, but I’m *never * not trying.

Oh, and just to be perfectly clear, I’m also not saying that any employer is obliged to accommodate this particular problem. They’re absolutely not. That said, if my employer has done the cost/benefit analysis, and decided that it’s something he can live with, then it’s between us, and absolutely no one else’s concern. Co-workers who whine about it can bite me.

Something that I find helpful… a bit pricey, but worth it… is one of those sunrise alarm clocks. It’s basically a lamp that gradually turns on until (hopefully) you wake up, in simulation of a natural sunrise. Even though I’m nearly always on time, I’m one of those people who just hates morning and finds it a serious effort to get out of bed, and the sunrise simulator really helps me.

The thing is, chronically late people usually arent “five to ten minutes late.” It’s usually really 15 to 20. Or more.

My father in law has a lot of nice qualities, but he’s always late for any sort of arrangement with us, and by a lot. On one occasion we had dinner prepared for him at 7 PM; he arrived at 10, no apology. One, two, three hours; it’s just routine.

I couldn’t figure out why this was, or why it was he always seemed to have some errand to run on his way here that would hold him up some ridiculous time, but I figured it out this Christmas after it started getting blatantly malicious; he simply does not give a shit about anyone else. It’s not that he’s consciously mean; it’s just that other people’s convenience don’t exist in his world. His daughters exist to serve him, and that’s all there is to it.

Everyone is late sometimes; that’s life. Getting your panties in a twist, to use the OP’s colorful term, over someone being late once or twice is just nuts, and a corporate policy of handing out a bonus for NEVER being late is fucking dangerous, and indicates an employer with their heads up their ass about safety.

But people who are late constantly simply aren’t trying, and they aren’t trying because they don’t care to try.

RickJay, what do you think the consequences would have been if, when he strolled in at 10 PM like nothing happened, you had told him that dinner was three hours ago, and would he like some crackers?

Being habitually late in the professional workplace is simply not acceptable and such people should be terminated. If the company has flex time, fine. But when you are supposed to be doing something at a set time, you need to be there.

Most of us in the professional world have schedules. Maybe it’s only one or two hours a day that are inflexible but I’ve got to be doing what I’ve got to be doing at exactly that time or it’s hurting business. Multiply that by working internationally. When you’ve got a key conference call with 5 people in 3 time zones and only 60 minutes to get 60 minutes worth of work done, then no it is absolutely not acceptable to be 5 minutes late. When I have to get up early to make a 5:00 am call (so someone else can take the call during normal working hours, I sure as fuck don’t want to be kept on the line. How about a 2:00 am call, or a 11 pm call. That’s just insultingly rude.

For those of you habitually late - what about planes or trains? do you expect them to understand you were in traffic? Employees know that missing a flight is a career move. We spend $10k on flights, direct costs, trainings, etc and someone misses their flight and gets to the training a day late? Or worse, misses the customer presentation. Don’t even think about coming back to the office unless you can prove it was a unavoidable delay (and bad traffic is not an excuse). I’ll accept getting in an accident, earthquake closing the road, cancelled flight, but not much else.

My wife runs on China time. It’s pretty frustrating but if at home I get on the dope until she is ready or I surf from my pda. :cool: She’s finally gotten to the point of accepting that we leave early to the airport (and there have been a few occaisions that we needed the time).

That depends. If the gal from purchasing who sits in the cube next to me is late, and she often is, it doesn’t affect me and I don’t care at all. I’m not hating her lateness out of spite and even if I did, it’s none of my business.

If the software dude is late to three out of every four morning product meetings, we all have to wait for him. That means that five of us have to waste five to ten minutes each time until he shows up. He’s a great software engineer and I am sure it is worth it from a cost/benefit analysis to the employer. That doesn’t make him any less of a selfish asshole and his not caring is the height of rudeness.

If you’re in a situation like the software guy, this “those who whine can bite me” attitude is just plain fucked up and you need to re-evaluate your presumed worth in the world relative to the rest of us.

There was no food by then. Well, there was, but it was cold. He simply didn’t get the message. We finally got fed up at Christmas and started excluding them from things, which has had some effect, thought not as much as you’d think.

Sleep is related to health, and your health should DEFINITELY be first priority. How is one going to be an effective worker if one doesn’t get enough sleep?

There’s probably a solution, rather than always arriving late to work, though.