What does "God loves you" mean?

Great Debates
1

This post got me wondering about the meaning of the phrase.

For the purposes of this discussion and to define terms, let’s assume the basic Christ dies for salvation story is true (personally I do not believe it). So by “God” I mean as taught by Christianity (definition purposefully encompassing of the whole spectrum from fundamental to liberal interpretations). I am tangentially interested in other definitions of God too, and wouldn’t consider such tangential discussions as hijacks.

“God” defined (sorta), check. “You”, needs no clarification I hope - unless there is debate between the collective “you” (i.e. humanity) and the individual “you” (i.e. me). That leaves “loves” and this is where I’m stumped.

Certainly there are different classes or levels of love. “Mom loves you” means something different to me than “Nature’s Call loves you” means to my dog. What class of love is meant by “God loves you”? I doubt my dog does or can understand my love for it. Can I understand what is meant by God’s love for me? If not, why bother telling me? When I consider the assertion that God made me in his own image, I take it as implicit that means this love is understandable - that I can reason with it using my own terms. If this love is some exotic, cosmic thing unpenetrable by my meagre intellect, then what is accomplished by uttering the phrase “God loves you”?

So it must mean that God has some kind of emotional investment in me. If so, with all of his power, why can’t he make it as clear to me as I do to my wife? I don’t buy, “because of sin” and all that. If my wife “sins” against my me, we still communicate with each other in an effort to build the relationship and move past it. If I still loved my wife, I certainly wouldn’t hide behind a cloud and make her guess whether I still loved her. If I called my actions “mysterious ways,” she would call it playing games and it would seriously jeopardize any chances at a relationship.

If I tell her “Because of what you did, I cannot even speak to you,” surely that’s an indication of the absence of love - or at least the end of the relationship. If my relationship with God is blocked because of my sin, and the only way to communicate with God is indirectly - this feels just like the only way my wife can speak to me is through lawyers - an indication of the absence of love.

In short, either “God loves you” means something I can’t understand in which case the phrase is meaningless for practical purposes, or the intuitive meaning of “God loves you” is patently untrue as God would have no difficulty making it plain if it was. Or (the likeliest explanation) I’m missing something, which is why I ask the question: What does “God loves you” mean?

2

I think God is someone. That someone individually, and personally has great care, and concern, and desire for good for you, personally. So much so, in fact that He wants you to become an infinite being, in His own image. To lead you in the very difficult journey from mortal, to immortal, He became human, Jesus, and lived among humans, and was killed because of His desire to make humans see that nothing on the earth was as important as the love of God, and the love of Men for God, and for each other.

If you do not follow that very difficult path, you cannot reach immortality, not because He punishes you, but because it is not in your nature to be immortal, but in His.

I have no proof, or theological argument to support this, and don’t really care to argue its merits. Love is a good idea, even without God, and God doesn’t care why you choose to love all his children. So, just try to love each soul you encounter. Either it will end with you meeting God, and not having any more questions, or you will have lived a very good life for logically invalid reasons.

Tris

3

For those who believe in God, it can be comforting to believe that God loves everybody. “Even me?” Yes, you, too. I suppose it has to be a matter of faith to believe it, since there’s little evidence, for most of us. God never gave me anything I prayed for, and for most of my life, He never gave me the feeling or even the illusion that God loves me.

4

“I think you’re an asshole.”

5

**What does “God loves you” mean? **

If you can figure that out, you will be among a small and elect group of people. Christians spend their entire lives trying to understand the answer to that question.

6

Disclosure: I was raised in numerous Christian traditions including, be not limited to, Presbyterianism, Methodism, Southern Baptism, and “Non-denominational Christianity” (read “Fundamentalism”) before rejecting it all mid-teens for various Eastern philosophies (mostly Taoism). Eventually I went on to become (and still am) what folks around these parts refer to as a “weak atheist”. That said; feel free to bask in the gentle glow of my cynicism.

In the particular instance you cited in the OP, I think Polycarp was simply being facetious. I suppose a case could be made that such facetiousness on the part of a generic Christian might constitute a passive-aggressive slap at another poster who is perceived as one simply not worth the effort of honest engagement. Anyway, more generally…

Saying “God loves you” is a justification. Many like to paint the almighty as a loving, but stern, father-figure who “wants what is best for you.” You may be inclined to wonder why such a being cares about your plight-- and there it is. You see, He loves you. But what does that mean?

Does he love you enough to clarify his divine plan for you? Debatable. Anyways, that would violate the notion of “free will” as imagined by notable human philosophers. After all, omnipotence only goes so far. Does he love you enough to prevent you from being horrifically injured in a random accident? I guess it’s hard to say before you’re under the bus. Anyways, perhaps part of God’s “plan for you” (see above) is to live the remainder of your life in a wheelchair so you can inspire others with your stiff upper lip.

…OK, now I’m being facetious. Really, it strikes me as something of a guilt-trip.

7

God loves you. Of course if you make a mistake and then die he will boil you in fiery molten liquid for eternity. Tough love.

8

“God Loves You.” Tough one to crack. As said earlier, we spend every Sunday morning (and more - I attend a breakfast group to discuss as well) on this subject, trying to understand it. Reconciling God’s love with the horror of our world.

My personal parse as a late to religion Christian (not raised in faith by my parents):

My personal analogy:
He is like a remote older father, and we are not much more than toddlers. We do not understand why we don’t get chocolate milk and candy for every meal. We do not understand why we have to go to bed. We do not understand why the dog bit us, or the the pain of hitting our head on the table, or the sting of the mosquito bite. Why didn’t dad dump the dog, remove the table, kill all the bugs, etc.

We are not developed enough to truly understand why all of this happens. Worse, this dad analogy dad is one of those remote dads who is only personally expressive at certain times.

Finally, God gave us free will. If he stuck his hand in everything, then we would not be able to find our way to grace.

I DO think that I can feel and see and hear God’s presence. At the same time, I believe that God has given us the ability to mess up our lives. I also believe that no matter what we do, we can find our way back to God. The dad that, no matter what, will let you move back into your bedroom and will help out - you just have to ask.

What he does not do is send you cards every day. He doesn’t go to work with you. He does not hover over you swatting away the mosquitos. He knows that you need to develop, and learning that mosquitos bite (as do dogs) is important to your development.

Please excuse the poor parsing.

9

It means that the Eternal Personal Mind behind all that is has a deep concern for your eventual well-being and happiness, in spite of whatever happens in this realm of existence, and that if you trust & cling onto that, and look out for the well-being of others, you will attain some of that well-being and happiness in this life as well as the next. The fullest expression of that Divine concern was through the life, death & resurrection of Jesus, and thus trust in JC is the fullest way to attain that meaningful life now & forever.

However, for some reason, some, even many, do not find any compelling reason to accept either God in general or Jesus in particular. Others do have compelling reasons to accept Him/Them, but willfully resist/rebel. The former will be handled with greater mercy than the latter, but there will be some penalties for those who resist the Light they’ve experienced. However, everyone- believing Christians, non-C’tian theists, humanitarian non-theists & anti-theists, and completely hateful people, theist & non, will all be given opportunity to surrender/embrace God/Christ. If there are any who still rebel (assuming that is even possible), they will not escape the Light of the God they despise unless God mercifully sends them into the Darkness &/or Nothingness they prefer to Him.

10

[QUOTE=FriarTed]
It means that the Eternal Personal Mind behind all that is has a deep concern for your eventual well-being and happiness, in spite of whatever happens in this realm of existence, and that if you trust & cling onto that, and look out for the well-being of others, you will attain some of that well-being and happiness in this life as well as the next.

[QUOTE]

The ‘Eternal Personal Mind’ … Is that what people call it these days? EPM… hmmmm

11

[QUOTE=m1k3g]

[QUOTE=FriarTed]
It means that the Eternal Personal Mind behind all that is has a deep concern for your eventual well-being and happiness, in spite of whatever happens in this realm of existence, and that if you trust & cling onto that, and look out for the well-being of others, you will attain some of that well-being and happiness in this life as well as the next.

No, actually, I call “It” either “God”, “Yahweh” or “Jesus”, but oddly enough, not “Howard”.

12

God always hurts the ones he loves. I have no proof, or theological argument to support this, and don’t really care to argue its merits.

13

Well, I go with “it means something I can’t understand in which case the phrase is meaningless for practical purposes”.

For someone else, it can mean: “Don’t worry. Everthing’s going to be just fine. God’s looking after you.”
Or “You’re a good person, someone who is worthy of being loved, even if you don’t think that you are.”

14

I’ve always thought of it the same way I think about ‘God bless you’. Once you’re blessed, do you ever stopped being blessed? Does blessing twice help twice as much? Can you bless someone who doesn’t want to be blessed? Is blessing with holy water better than blessing without? Etc.

It’s just a nice thing to say and makes people feel good. It isn’t logically consistent, and doesn’t really have any grounding in reality.

15

What about “Harold”?

16

It means that God is either nonexistant, twisted or helpless, since a God ( or anything ) that loved humanity wouldn’t sit back and let all the horrible things that happen to people happen, happen. Unless he’s a sadist who expresses love by hurting those he loves. And no, I don’t buy the silly “free will” argument; letting someone die of cancer, for example, if you have the power to stop it has nothing to do with respecting the victim’s free will.

That’s rather pathetic philosophy; it’s obviously an attempt to rationalize the contradiction between God’s alleged goodness and his inaction away. Forcing people to operate in ignorance is not giving them a free choice. And as not following God is generally supposed to have terrible consequences ( which violates free will FAR more than telling people you exist ), neither is sitting by and letting people fall to those consequences loving, especially for the being who set things up that way in the first place.

No, it doesn’t, or it’s not omnipotence.

17

Der Trihs is right that free will is not relevant here. In no way does my direct relationship with my wife impinge her free will.

But I can buy that a loving God can allow suffering. My kids, I’m sure, have harboured the thought “Daddy doesn’t love me” they thought justified in the short term while not having the capacity to see the long term. However, I do not leave the kids a in vacuum. I care enough about them to put their short term suffering into some kind of context - at the very least acknowledge their feelings. I guess the trouble I have understanding “God loves you” is not how can a loving God allow this to happen, but rather how can a loving God remain absent when this happens. If the Prime Minister can visit the troops to show them support in tough times, how much more easily can God at least show up once in a while in a manner that is unambiguous?

I guess one can compare it to childbirth: It must be pretty painful for a child to be born, especially without the capacity to understand what’s happening. I can understand if this life is naught but birth pains for the hereafter. But I don’t make great efforts to communicate my plan or my love to a fetus. What it thinks of me is not important before childbirth. There is no merit a fetus must earn before becoming a baby - their being born doesn’t depend on the quality of a relationship forged with it before birth. While I love that fetus and all that it will become, it’s futile to try to communication that love.

Taken! As in “Hark! The Harold angels sing!”

18

Our Father, Howard in Heaven.

See? It works.

19

I’m sorry, Der Trihs, but am I misreading you completely or do you think you’re disagreeing with me? I’ve self-identified as an atheist and I thought the cheeky/ironic aspects of my post were pretty straight-forward. It seems like one of us might have gotten whooshed. Was it you or me?

20

The “love” in God loves you is the same as in the abusive husband saying “I’m doing this because I love you” before he beats the crap out of his wife and kids. Any good things he gives; any bad things (including getting beaten) are the fault of the beatee. Forget about the stuff we do to each other that he might lessen without reducing free will - disease, floods, earthquakes, all due to our sinful nature. And if we go to hell because the Book which is supposed to teach us what to do is full of contradictions and falsehoods, well that’s our fault also.

But I will admit if we kiss his ass long enough, and don’t act up, there will be pie in the sky by and by.