What does it take to be in the CIA? ( Also a delayed med school entrance question)

Factual Questions
1

I am currently a junior in high school and I want to go to college and get a B.S. in some sort of somewhat universaly applicable degree that could be used in the private sector such as economics. What I ultimately wish to do is go to a nice medical school and become an emergency care physician; however, I would also like to do something as a change of pace before medical school. One of my parent’s assosciates happened to work at the CIA for a period of several years in the mid '80’s in the Clandestine branch in SE Asia (no more specifics). He said that hen enjoyed the experience immensely and that it helped him later in life after he entered the private sector. What I would like to do is join the CIA either in a clandestine or, less appealing, a proffesional position for a period of one to three years before entering medical school. Here were my most basic questions:

First, will any med school accept a person one to three years after leaving undergrad school? Will they want a new MCAT the year that I go to med school or will they accept the year that I leave undergrad?

How will taking a one to three year “break” reflect upon med school admission staff?

How will the fact that it was with the CIA reflect?

How hard is it to get into the CIA? If I have a degree in economics, an excelent academic record, and a fluent knowledge of Arabic, would the CIA accept me knowing that I did not intend to stay past 3 years?

Would I have a chance to be an independent clandestine agent or would I be working obstenitely under someone elses complete control.

If I got a job in the clandestine department, would the CIA pay most of my living costs oversea, or would I pay this with my salary?

What type of money could I save for med school each year?

How stressful is life as an operative?

How long would each assignment last?

Might I ever be forced into taking some “ethically questionable actions” without knowing before hand?

Could I get out? Transfered if I found the job to stressful?

Do clandestine agents ever have fun or is it constant work?

I would appreciate the opinions of anybody that has ever applied to the CIA or actually served with the CIA or know anything about the CIA.

Thanks

2

This should help.

http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/cia/cia.html

3

Your parents can’t have been married when you were born. :smiley:

4

CIA heavily recruits on the campuses of the nation’s better universities. They are highly selective and never think of themselves as a stepping stone to something bigger and better, for the simple reasons that they can pick and choose from the very best recruits and because a top-secret security clearance takes 9-12 months to process, and is quite labor intensive and expensive. (Don’t even think of fibbing to CIA officials about your career plans.)

Turning a green college grad into a competent intelligence officer savvy with the ways of foreign cultures takes a tremendous amount of staff resources, money, and time. Greenhorns start out doing basic assignments and slowly work their way up the ladder.

To qualify, an economics degree–preferably a master’s degree with a minimum 3.5 GPA–combined with fluency in a difficult language such as Arabic is a good start. Stay away from illicit drugs completely. Avoid unsavory people. Don’t join radical groups. Sharpen your leadership skills. polish your writing skills. Read everything you can. Demonstrate superior achievement and character. Develop close professional relations with three professors who can later give strong recommendations when needed. Demonstrate that you can be completely trusted with private information. Develop compatible outside interests. Show financial responsibility. etc. etc. etc.

Life as an intelligence officer is sometimes dangerous, often stressful, and always kept private–even from lovers and family. Starting pay is good, not great, but will easily cover basic living expenses. CIA likes recruits who are somewhat older that your average college grad and have some military experience–something that shows toughness of mind and body, seasoning, discipline, and the ability to follow orders to the letter. Will you be asked to carry out “ethically questionable” assignments? Yes, but that’s really relative, isn’t it? Remember that intelligence officers are screened from the recruiting process forward, thereby reducing the incidence of such ethical conflicts. Your willingness to do so, however, is vital. It’s a dirty world out there and CIA isn’t the Boy Scouts.

Despite what you hear from the media, CIA is highly results-oriented; they will expect exceptional competency and professionalism. Your private life is never completely private, of course. Also expect routine polygraph tests, an exhaustive background investigation in which your friends and acquaintances are interviewed, and an initial pre-employment questionnaire that asks you to detail every single episode of illicit drug use in your entire lifetime–providing date and reason for doing so. Also, try not to move around a lot; it makes the background check that much harder.

Again, CIA, NSA, DIA, State Department Foreign Service are exceptionally selective and hiring officials are looking at the long term. If your plan is strictly short term (and that’s probably guesswork on your end), consider applying elsewhere. But ask a few people in the know, and they will tell you the work they do is addictive, the esprit de corps amazing, and the experience unlike any other. Besides, medical personnel are in demand in these organizations.

5

Quite true, and security clearances are a PITA that they only do on people who are going to be trusted with classified information or work in secure areas. They don’t mess around.

I can speak from experience that the above is correct. You’ll be a public servant, so expect considerably less privacy than the public sector. I can also echo that the services mentioned above are extremely selective and definitely focused on retaining an employee for a minimum of ten years. These aren’t something you can do as resume builders because it will look interesting-these are careers.
I was recruited by NSA and CIA (in CIA’s case, for the Junior Clandestine Officer program) and was made painfully aware by the agents that this was the big leagues. I decided not to go with them, but took and passed the Foreign Service Exam, and will be shipping out next year.

If you’re looking for something cool to do before medical school that will enhance professional development and look good on a resume, look into the Peace Corps, or at one of the larger educational exchange programs. These will give you travel, a chance to use a foreign language, and some really good experiences that you can use later. Failing that, take some first aid courses through the Red Cross and volunteer with Doctors Without Borders. Choosing the CIA would be a very costly mistake if what you REALLY want to do is go to medical school.

[Edited by manhattan on 08-09-2001 at 03:42 PM]

6

Ah, crap. Can one of the mods fix my coding for me?
No coffee and no soda make False_God something something…

7

I was at a Federal Government job fair about a decade ago. One of the agencies present was indeed the CIA, and I applied for a mailroom position. Tunrs out I wasn’t acceptable because I had no valid driver’s license.

8

There’s an application on their website.

9

Seconded. And although their recruitment process isn’t nearly as strenuous and thorough as intelligence recruitment, they still have the cream of the crop to pick from. In their case, they’ll be looking for someone with expertise in areas like civil engineering, education, agriculture, health care, etc. I don’t think an economics degree is going to impress them much, but a good pre-med background might. (I interviewed with the Peace Corps and my electronics engineering degree wasn’t worth squat to them.)

You also might want to consider applying at the State Department and try and get on an embassy staff as an intern or gopher of some kind. I don’t know any specifics on what kinds of positions might exist or how you apply for them, but an economics degree would seem to be more useful there.

10

IF you mean at US embasssies abroad, the bulk of the work is done by

a) Foreign Service Officers (what I’ll be in a month or so)

b) Foreign Service Specialists (admin, tech., or linguists

c) Foreign Service Nationals (residents of the country cleared by security to work at the Embassy)

or by Foreign Service and resident US military spouses.

Internships, some paid, do exist at Main State in DC, however.

What I’d suggest to the OP additionally is consider working as a confidential courier. Companies that need shipments delivered personally will pay for your travel on top of a salary. You give up your baggage check, they put the stuff on the plane, you escort it there and pick up a shipment back. I’ve known a couple people who did this and enjoyed it immensely.

11

Aha - you forgot one.

[li] Marine Embassy Guards.[/li]
I have a friend who served two years as an embassy guard in some crazy locations, and some cushy ones. He loved it, although I don’t suppose the OP would be interested in an enlisted career in the Marines after graduating from college. :slight_smile:

12

To start off, I greatly appreciate the information provided here, and from what I gather, it is pretty obvious that a position as an operations officer would not be a good choice for me before med school. Not to diminish the input of anybody’s responses, but let us totaly rephase the question:

what about after med school and perhaps a three year emergency care residency?

Although the CIA offers an overseas medical officer position, what are my chances of involvment within the CIA as a clandestine officer if I have a slightly expanded time frame such as 5-7 years and an M.D. as well as a residency?

Tsunamisurfer, thankyou for the information regarding being accepted into the CIA as a clandestine officer, particularly the stuff that I had not guessed like the secure financial patterns etc. which would make an applicant less vulnerable to offers of money etc.

In regards to “ethically questionable assignments”:

I have no problem endargering myself or other people in regards to terrorism, or even take actions against others to save lives; I am willing to sacrafice one to save the other, but not in cases of economics or in the case of drugs.

I am totaly unwilling to take any sort of observation or action against any sort of drug cartel unless the cartel uses violence to influence its business unless the CIA’s role was in attempting to limit violence or corruption of government officials.

I have no problem working for the sake of American economic interests or even working in “dangerous” situations for American economic interests. I won’t endangering others for such interests without perhipial issues.

So, how does my “moral compass” stack up to the rest of the CIA? Can I still make it as a covert officer?

13

I’m no expert, threemae, but judging from what I’ve read, I don’t think you’re actual “covert ops” material.

I think you’ve got some learning to do before seriously considering going for the post.

14

“Although the CIA offers an overseas medical officer position, what are my chances of involvment within the CIA as a clandestine officer if I have a slightly expanded time frame such as 5-7 years and an M.D. as well as a residency?”

If you look at their website, you will see that “The Office of Medical Services is hiring individuals with medical degrees to provide primary medical care and advice to Agency employees, dependents and assets.” Assets are what people not in the business call “agents.”

CIA docs do do some hush-hush work but it I don’t think it is what you have in mind (e.g., doing a physical exam in the back of a taxi, submitting blood specimens to laboratories under false names, etc.). Mostly what they do is treat patients. There are (or at least have been) some CIA analysts and covert ops people with medical training (e.g., the people who try to assess the health of world leaders by watching them on CNN and the people involved in the various plots to kill or at least embarrass Castro, for example) but I would think that if you show up with ER training and experience they would put you to work as a regular doc rather than have you do cloak and dagger stuff.

Two other things, although it is very common to find ex-CIA people who will, as tsunamisurfer says, “tell you the work they do is addictive, the esprit de corps amazing, and the experience unlike any other” there are also some people who come out of the CIA embittered and very much opposed to the CIA and its work.

It sounds like you need to learn a lot more about the CIA. You could start with their website, especially the page describing their programs for college undergraduate and graduate students:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/employment/jobpostings/student1.htm

"Are you looking for an exciting and challenging internship or cooperative education experience? Consider employment with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) as an undergraduate or graduate student.

The CIA offers the following programs for students:
Undergraduate Student Trainee (Co-Op) Program
Internship Program
Graduate Studies Program"

You might also want to read a few books on the subject. I suggest you try to select from the small percentage not written by crackpots.

15

I am virtually certain that the CIA is similar to the military in that you are not able to pick and choose your orders and assignments. In the military, such actions can land you in the brig. In the CIA, such actions (or even the hint that you might refuse an order or assignment) will likely result in you no longer working for the CIA. In any event, I am somewhat familiar with the background checks necessary to get the higher security clearances. They will find out everything there is to know about you before you are cleared–possibly even your comments in this forum. :smiley:

Nobody wants to deal with someone who says that they won’t work on certain categories of assignments, especially something as morally unabiguous (relatively speaking), such as drug trafficking.

16

Well said. CIA has a distinct military mindset. Neither rebels nor Mother Theresa’s will not make the first cut. And though dissenting opinions/analyses are often encouraged in reports issued by intelligence analysts, intelligence officers (agents) are expected to follow orders to the letter. As with the corporate world, subordinates are not allowed to choose which assignments they will accept or reject. No organization can work that way.

Re: Yeah’s statement about disaffected CIA employees, please read the first 20 pages of John Stockwell’s classic book (“In Search of Enemies”), which documents his involvement in and growing outrage at CIA’s involvement in the Angolan War. It is a genuine page turner that documents how ethically troubled souls can burn out in that environment.

Not that I agree with his conclusions.

17

As a side note, be aware that if you ever work for the CIA, even in a Student Internship position, you can never join an organization like the Peace Corps.