What does "marriage" mean to you?

In My Humble Opinion
41

[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
My brother said, “A marriage can survive without love, but it can’t survive without respect.”

I wonder how people who have been married for a long time view this. When two first meet, maybe we’re horny as bandicoots, and maybe the discoveries about the other person are intriguing…but with time the relationship must become pretty mundane. So what is that love after 5, 10, 25 years? Is it the same or has it changed? Should it have a different label than “love” or not?
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We’ve been in love for 36 years and married for 30, and not much has changed in any department - except that we are closer than ever. There is this great shared body of experience, going back to college, that could never be replaced.

Just before we got married I worried what we were going to find to talk about after 20 years. It hasn’t been a problem.

42

One of the best analogies I’ve heard about marriage is that you walk along the path of your life by yourself. If you’re lucky, your path will merge with someone else’s and you can walk it side by side, occasionally helping each other over the bumps.

It’s a public commitment, pure and simple. I don’t put any significance in a religious ceremony of any kind, but if she wants one, I’ll suffer through it for her. Getting married by the Elvis impersonator in Vegas works just as well for me. Actually, marriage just simplifies property, etc. when one of us dies. We both made the commitment to each other a long time ago.

43

[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
what is that love after 5, 10, 25 years? Is it the same or has it changed?
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We’re maybe still newlyweds after five and a half years, but we’ve been together for ten. Yes, it’s still love. Has it changed? Yes, we know each other better, have learned to fight without hurting each other, play better together. Don’t hog each other’s toys so much. :smiley: I don’t get bored of my husband for the same reason I don’t get bored with my friends- they’re interesting, funny, and kind, and the longer we know each other, the better our ongoing conversation (which is what marriage sometimes feels like).

44

Your brother is a wise man.
I’ve seen too many marriages where there is little or no respect for the other person. Sometimes it is like some go out of their way just to be mean or blame the other person for something they didn’t do (*Did you see how that guy cut you off! How could you let that happen!!) *

45

Marriage to me is mutual respect. Trust. He’s would be my best friend or the closest thing to it because I don’t think anyone could replace my current BFF. He would encourage my independence and growth as a person while being my biggest supporter, as I would be for him.

It wouldn’t feel like a “marriage”. It would feel like a partnership and friendship.

For me it is harder to explain, I guess, because I have never experienced it. It’s the type of relationship that I would hope for. The one I had ended in divorce mainly because he didn’t trust me and I couldn’t go anywhere alone (besides work) without answering 20 questions.

Here’s to hoping I’m not being unrealistic.

46

My first marriage ended after 26 very, very, long years. There was no respect or trust in the marriage - but we still managed to raise two wonderful sons. Except for the moments of memory that include my children, those 26 years have faded into one hazy perception.

A scant four years later I am with a man who supports and encourages me, loves me flaws and all . . . and I love him equally. This relationship is all about trust and respect. I feel blessed to have had a second opportunity to experience what a committed relationship feels like.

On the notion of soul mates, I believe my 19 year-old son said it best. “It’s not that he’s the right person for you. It’s that he’s a right person for you.”

47

[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
I don’t think I am normal in this regard but I do think that many people sneak and work around it even for mundane things. I do think that marriage cuts down on many basic freedoms that even an average 18 year old has. The big advantage that it gives is the ability to procreate and raise the kids responsibly. I know for a a fact that I am not alone in that assessment because men have told me that all my life.

My basic personality is to resist almost all outside control except for my daughters whenever possible. I love my wife but I know for a fact that I am strange in that regard because so many people tell me. If I get up on a Saturday morning and say that I am leaving and will be back before noon, I do not want anyone asking where I am going or why. I will most likely go to Barnes and Noble and read or go sit in a park somewhere. That is a core trait of mine and has gotten way more severe than the example I just gave at different times.

I don’t cheat. I just instinctively segment my life into different compartments so that my universes don’t touch. I wish it were easier in a way but I have met many married men that do versions of the same thing. My marriage is one of my important relationships. My daughters are way higher. I trust my wife completely no matter whatever other flaws she has but she is not the sun in my solar system. She is more like a Jupiter.
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You mention several times that you know of other men who are similar in wanting to go out for a bit an not explain where they are going. Do you not think that there are many women who are the same way?

I wonder if you had been aware that there are many women like that too, if you would have looked for one to marry? And then perhaps not feel like marriage means you have to give up basic freedoms.

My husband and I are similar in our need for alone time, a desire to be a hermit at times, and enjoyment of doing things separately from each other.

I knew I would not be happy with someone who demanded to know where I was and what I was doing at all times. I had dated some of those, so knew it wouldn’t work. I like that my husband would actually prefer me to just say I was going out, rather than tell him all the details.

I can pretty much picture his eyes glazing over if I were to say,“Well, first I am going to the cemetary because I want to read the headstones and make up stories in my head about the people who are buried there. Then I am going to get a sandwich and go to the boat ramp on the river, and sit and watch the people back their boats in the water, and mentally score them like I was an olympic judge. 9.2 8.6 5.0 Then I am going back to the indoor flea market and buy my friend that old postcard of the woman with the cigar, because the more I think about it, the more I think she would like it. Then I am going to go to the store and buy carrots. Then on to the farm to see if any of the weanlings will eat carrots yet. And then on the way home, I am going to stop and take pictures of those crazy looking chickens that I always see so I can email them to a friend who raises rare chickens, and ask her what kind they are…”

Really, I would not want to inflict that on anyone, so I definitely knew I needed to marry someone who wouldn’t even ask, wouldn’t even want to know things like that.

In trying to think of any freedoms I have given up by being married, I really can’t think of any. Like another poster mentioned, having sex with multiple partners never appealed to me, so I don’t see that as something I have given up. I like to to travel to see certain horses race and visit new racetracks, so I do that on my own or with friends who also enjoy that, just as I did when I was single.

The only thing I can come up with, is that when living alone I would often crank up dorky music while doing major cleaning. So now any major cleaning waits until my husband is playing golf, or out with friends. But that is about the only thing I can think of that has changed. I know there must be others, but none are major enough that I can even call them to mind.

So I think that it is not marriage by definition that might make a couple co-dependent, but it is more the individuals involved that might might make it that way. And for me, dating was the way I was able to find out which person I could be happily married to. Not that he would “complete” me, but he would add something to my life I would very much like. I could live without him, but I would much prefer to live with him.

48

[QUOTE=Grits and Hard Toast]
You mention several times that you know of other men who are similar in wanting to go out for a bit an not explain where they are going. Do you not think that there are many women who are the same way?

I wonder if you had been aware that there are many women like that too, if you would have looked for one to marry? And then perhaps not feel like marriage means you have to give up basic freedoms.

My husband and I are similar in our need for alone time, a desire to be a hermit at times, and enjoyment of doing things separately from each other.

I knew I would not be happy with someone who demanded to know where I was and what I was doing at all times. I had dated some of those, so knew it wouldn’t work. I like that my husband would actually prefer me to just say I was going out, rather than tell him all the details.
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I know for a fact that females can do it too. I am not sure when I developed these ideas but I developed a pretty close friendship with a female coworker about a year before my wedding. She did everything that you describe and I internalized it quickly because I was already worried about a suffocating marriage by then. Her husband would not stand up to her at all and was so shy that he just stayed in their apartment until she decided to include him in something. That isn’t ideal but I felt a radical change in my beliefs around that time.

49

[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
I know for a fact that females can do it too. I am not sure when I developed these ideas but I developed a pretty close friendship with a female coworker about a year before my wedding. She did everything that you describe and I internalized it quickly because I was already worried about a suffocating marriage by then. Her husband would not stand up to her at all and was so shy that he just stayed in their apartment until she decided to include him in something. That isn’t ideal but I felt a radical change in my beliefs around that time.
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I am not sure I understand what you mean. Do you mean to say that because your co-worker led her own life, and did her own things, that that caused her husband to suffocate?

Or that her husband should have stood up to her and not let her, instead of just staying at home alone?

I don’t think I get what you are saying.

50

[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
I know for a fact that females can do it too. I am not sure when I developed these ideas but I developed a pretty close friendship with a female coworker about a year before my wedding. She did everything that you describe and I internalized it quickly because I was already worried about a suffocating marriage by then. Her husband would not stand up to her at all and was so shy that he just stayed in their apartment until she decided to include him in something. That isn’t ideal but I felt a radical change in my beliefs around that time.
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If someone knew me superficially they might see my marriage like this: I am much more social than my husband–I’ve gone out of town for a week when he was also off work, and come home to find he didn’t talk to anyone the whole time I was gone. That would NEVER happen with me–I can’t go more than about 48 hours without leaving the house if no one else is in it. So I go to all sorts of social functions alone–happy hour after work, card games (I love to play cards–it bores him), school functions. For huge swaths of our lives he has no real opinion and so leaves it up to me. But while that might look like he can’t stand up to me, nothing could be further from the truth. The man does nothing he doesn’t want to do–something that relieves me, as I do have a tendency to go full steam ahead. He’s very good at pulling me up short when something matters to him.

51

[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
Marriage has little to do with love. It is a legal contract and the two components of marriage need to be broken apart so that couples can choose either component or both of them as they see fit. In many societies, including western ones, marriage hasn’t always been tied to everlasting spiritual love. It was often used to bond families or ensure practical resources for both parties.
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You know, though I’m still in agreement with others that your relationship sounds painful and hollow and lonely to me, I’ve got to agree with you that marriage very often is precisely what you describe: a functional contract for the purpose of merging resources and continuing the family lines.

Well, that’s part of my marriage, for sure and certain. He’s also my partner in a lot of other ways. I don’t see myself as co-dependent, because I could certainly survive without him if he got hit by a bus or something… but so long as the both of us are on this earth, I can’t imagine why I’d ever do so. He’s my best friend and my lover, as well as my business-of-life partner. The benefits reaped from these three aspects of the relationship far outweigh the freedoms I lose by entering into it. I can’t spend money freely and impulsively. I can’t always spend my time as I like. I can’t autonomously decide where I live or even what I do for a living. Every major move I make is considered with him in mind, but it’s also true that I have much more freedom with pooled resources and someone to watch my back than I would if I were only working alone, more time with someone to share the chores, and better sex after almost ten years together than I ever had with any previous partner. That time and money I can’t spend freely? I wouldn’t have it at all, if not for the partnership. It’s also important that I can have children and raise them in the way I mean to, which couldn’t be done if I were alone. As others have said, I have far more real freedom because of the partnership than I would without.

Back in the day, I imagine functional marriages were common more often than fairy tale ones, if for no other reason than you had a very limited number of choices, and a very short time-frame in which to marry. It seems like accounts from the 1800’s that people would commonly meet and marry within days or weeks. You met someone who would do, hopefully with a spark of attraction, and there you are. You could grow to love each other over time, and being a good husband or wife was not necessarily tied to whether or not you loved each other.

We are very similar people, my husband and I. We share views on most political and social issues, we come from similar backgrounds, have similar tastes in music, food, entertainment, and so on. We each have a very different, and very intense hobby, and very different and very intense work. Other than hobbies and work, we’re together just about every minute, because we love each other’s company. If I go somewhere, I let him know where I’m going to be–not because he cares, but in case he needs to find me or I don’t come home or something. Also for convenience, as in: “I’m going to the fabric store, the butcher shop, and the market, you want anything?” If I decide to make other stops or change my itinerary, I will sometimes update him and sometimes not, depending on whether or not it’s going to effect him–like being late for dinner or not being able to pick up something he needed on my route. None of that is dependency, just consideration and affection for your partner.

After thinking it over some, I think I’m just wired for monogamy. If I hadn’t stumbled upon the right partner at the right time, I probably would have been perfectly happy to build a life on my own that is exactly what I, myself, want to live–but having a partner fulfills my life in a very significant way that is not just business, not just companionship, and not just sexual. All those things can theoretically be found elsewhere individually if necessary, so if that’s all I needed, I wouldn’t have gotten married. Shagnasty doesn’t feel a need to develop a particular kind of relationship with his wife. It’s just business.

52

[QUOTE=Manda JO]
The man does nothing he doesn’t want to do–something that relieves me, as I do have a tendency to go full steam ahead. He’s very good at pulling me up short when something matters to him.
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That could be said of my husband as well. Since he knows I am capable and willing to attend things I want to do, by myself, he never feels guilted into going to something he has no interest in. Just tonight some friends called, said they were meeting up at the local pub and wanted us to join them. Earlier my husband wanted to go, but later decided he would rather stay in. He knew if I wanted to go, I would. It works for us that he can change his mind, and know I won’t be upset, missing out on something I was looking forward to.

A while back, I qualified for a big handicapping contest in Las Vegas. I was thrilled, but I knew my husband did not enjoy Las Vegas. I was glad I didn’t have the situation where either I went with him, and he had a lousy time, or I couldn’t go at all. And he was glad I wouldn’t expect him to come with me, because I wouldn’t want to go by myself. As it turned out, another friend also qualfied. This was a very nice looking male friend. I knew my husband would be teased, his wife off in Vegas with another guy. But he said he was glad I would have someone there I knew. Others may look at that situation as very strange or a signal of a bad marriage, but to me is was a huge sign of a very healthy, strong marriage.

For other couples it works that they do things together, or not at all. They compromise, one goes to something they don’t really want to, knowing that it will make the other happy. And the favor will be returned.

There is no right or wrong way, just finding what makes both happy. In Shagnasty’s situation, it seems he feels marriage is set up in a way that means certain types of people won’t be happy in it. Or to be in a marriage, you have to give up important parts of yourself, or feel bad if you don’t give them up. I think any type of person can be happy in it, as long as they are with the “right” person for them. And if someone doesn’t find that person, they can be happy not being married.

I was happy being single. When I met my husband I didn’t think I had met Mr Right. I felt I met Mr Right For Me, so I happily married him. And 15 years later, knowing what I know now…I am positive my life is better in everyway from being married to him. And he often tells me he feels that way about me. So it can work for even “quirky” types.

53

My favorite marriage analogy is that marriage is like a base camp, a shelter you hang out in for rest and recovery and rejuvenation, and eventually you have to go out your separate ways and climb mountains, but you always come back to the base camp. I enjoy this analogy because I have an independent spirit but a real belief in the power of a good relationship. The whole point, I think, is to be able to contribute more to the world together than you otherwise could apart, to give one another strength and shelter but not limitations.

My husband and I are two years into our marriage, six years into our relationship, and I’m deliriously in love with him. He makes me laugh and feel joy on a daily basis, so to be perfectly honest it’s hard to approach this question rationally. Marriage to me is the most exciting and wonderful experience imaginable. Nothing makes me happier than sharing the adventure of life with him.

I don’t know how our relationship is going to change with time, and I am a fundamental believer in the impermanent nature of all things, so I definitely believe it will change. I don’t know what a seasoned marriage looks like, mine is still fresh and new. But we continue to act in ways that will make the relationship stronger down the road and we have definitely experienced periods of time without the warm fuzzies… yet continued in our behavior to value the commitment. We’ve been through hell and back together, so that helps. I told him on our wedding day, ‘‘You loved me at my very worst, so I vow to give you my very best’’ and I think that’s the mentality we still are living in. We are trying to be our best selves as individuals and really just bask in the glow of the intellectual and spiritual and emotional growth of the other.

Other than that I mean… I just think he hangs the moon, I don’t know what else to tell you.

For the record Shag, I don’t really think there’s anything inherently wrong with your perspective on marriage, as long as you’re both comfortable with the arrangement. I don’t think marriage is intrinsically anything. I think its personal definition depends on the relationship in question. What marriage is to us, we have created for ourselves and I wouldn’t pretend to know what it is, or should be, for anybody else.

But damn, we’re really fucking happy.

54

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]

OTOH, I also find this statement disingenuous: “Marriage in no way limited my freedom.” Sure it does. There are things you can do when you’re single that you can’t do when you’re married unless you don’t care about the promises you made. You may voluntarily be restricting your freedom as a conscious, loving trade-off for all the benefits. You may be giving up things that aren’t particularly important to you, like how household money is spent, or having sex with multiple partners, etc. Those may be freedoms you gladly gave up, but they are freedoms nonetheless. I feel like I make compromises and sacrifices small and large every day and it’s worth it. When it’s not, that’s when marriages fail.

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COMPROMISE, n. Such an adjustment of conflicting interests as gives each adversary the satisfaction of thinking he has got what he ought not to have, and is deprived of nothing except what was justly his due.

  • Ambrose Pierce, ‘Devil’s Dictionary’.
55

[QUOTE=Beadalin]
Great posts, Aangelica.

I have remarried after a divorce from my first husband. My marriage now is a completely different animal than my first, and so I find it hard to make general statements about marriage. But maybe this little anecdote will help sum it up.

I worked with a woman and her family for many years. Julia was one of my professors in college, brought me along to two different employers, and I babysat her children for two summers. She told me several times that being married is great, and only gets better every year. She and her husband both told me emphatically that they were happier now than they’d ever been, and when I got married the first time, they both wished for me that my marriage would get better and better every year.

But I didn’t really believe them. I thought it would only get harder, duller, more routine, more constrictive. Instead of me examining my expectations for myself and questioning whether this was really the person I should marry, I went ahead with it and lo and behold, my marriage followed the path I expected, though I tried to pretend otherwise. I couldn’t emotionally believe in marriage as partnership.

Now I’m remarried to the right person, and it is, indeed, getting better all the time. It’s a joy. What would have felt like sacrifices in my first marriage feel like gifts now. We are each other’s champions and safety nets. For the first time in my life, I feel treasured for being exactly myself, which has been more freeing and empowering than I could possibly describe.
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Good for you! I think the right person makes all the difference. And while I haven’t been married, I was involved with a very toxic man for nearly six years who tried to turn me in to his mommy. He wouldn’t work, take care of himself, etc. It brought out the worst in me. It was a situation where he broke my trust with nearly every thing he did. (Addictions, lack of consideration, etc.)

Now, as **nyctea scandiaca ** has said, “My ideal definition of marriage would be one where the partners (whether they be a man and a woman or same-sex) are best friends, truly enjoy each other’s companionship, and love and trust each other completely.” I agree.

That is what I beleive I have with my SO. While we aren’t married yet, he and I are very closely connected. I anticipate our lives together being fulfilling and mutually satisfying. I hope it will be a place where he feels free, not constrained, to be himself, and that our dreams will be supported by the other. Companionship and compatibility are very important to me. I am a different, better person with him in my life. And I believe that marriage with him is right for me.

I will say this: there is no one “true” definition of marriage. My grandparents were married for over fifty years and for the most part, it was a miserable time for them and the rest of the family. Marriage used to be predicated on business. It was a business contract. And I think if people still live with that, then fine. People live in marriages where they are controlled and have to report to their spouse. If they are happy, then so be it. Others have unions that are more creative and less restrictive.

Thank you all for sharing. This is enlightening. :slight_smile: