Has it occurred to you that what you’re talking about is an infrastructure and social welfare problem, not a population problem?
Also, Japan has negative population growth with a disproportionately large aging population. Which is a problem for Japan on many levels, but not with respect to immigration levels.
Perhaps you had some other Asian country in mind as a better example of oppressive poverty, crumbling infrastructure and over population?
Or golf courses.
Far safer than they used to be, and far safer than they would be without sanctuary policies.
They’re certainly friendlier to unions, and offer much more to workers, than the Republicans. Higher minimum wage, better health care, more worker protections, etc. The Republicans are just as awful for workers as they have been for decades, if not worse – they’re trying to take away workers’ healthcare!
Once again, you’re allowing yourself to be manipulated. Immigrants aren’t hurting you, any more than the Jews were hurting Germany in the 30s. This is what the rich and powerful want you to believe so that you blame immigrants instead of the rich and powerful. It’s never immigrants who are the problem – it’s always the wealthy interests who try to manipulate us.
The first four on your list are because we have not invested in our infrastructure. Our infrastructure will be overloaded with or without immigration if we don’t pay for it. I live in “trumplandia”, I went to one of the least diverse high schools in my state, and the population demographics around me is 80+% white, with recent immigrants making up only a couple percent at most.
Our schools are overcrowded, our highways are nearly impassible for about 6 hours a day (This covid thing has actually been great for traffic). Lack of affordable housing and homelessness are very related, and they are not due to a lack of space to put houses, but due to artificial scarcity created mostly by wealthy land owners.
Our water, electrical and sewer are also infrastructure that is being neglected, and it is not being neglected due to immigration, it is being neglected due to the “starve the beast” mentality that the same people who are against immigration also generally promote.
So, you think that we should follow Japan’s model, where they have virtually no immigration, negative population growth, and a crashing economy due to that?
I suppose that republicans will not be happy until we are as white as Norway.
ETA: kinda ninja’d by QuickSilver
Not me! But I would like to know how you’re going to deal with a full country. Are you going to make abortion mandatory or just execute someone at random for every live birth?
No it didn’t. Open borders is not part of the Democratic Party platform.
I have my doubts about that.
Sanctuary cities aren’t something to be pushed for. Municipal governments aren’t responsible for enforcing federal laws; is this not so?
This seems like a complicated issue, one that requires education and critical analysis to derive a solution that may only solve 50 - 90 percent of the problem. That seems hard. Can I just blame poor brown people instead? That’s easier.
We keep having this exact same conversation with you over and over in these discussions. You make the same unsupported claims, we respond with the same reasoned arguments, you rarely offer the courtesy of a response except to post another wildly unsupported claim. Rinse and repeat in the next thread. It gets us nowhere.
Is it that you’re absolutely closed to taking in any new information that contradicts your existing world view? Do you think we’re lying to you? Help me understand this unbending refusal to consider new information. If you could help us understand you, perhaps we’ll all be a step closer to understanding, What Middle America sees in Donald Trump.
I agree they are to public unions (Ex. NEA) but not private sector. I dont see democrats supporting unions at WalMart and Amazon.
Where were democrats when the meatpacking plants tossed out their American workers and replaced them with illegals who work for half the money?
So as a conservative/republican, you would like more big government intrusion into businesses? Is that a correct understanding?
On a less flippant note: Do you understand how the American economy is inexorably dependent on cheap goods and seasonal labor? I would love to see meat plant workers making a living wage. But the cost of the meat they produce will go up significantly. Are you and the American consumer prepared to pay 50% to 100% more for that ground beef?
Meatpacker wages by US Labor Stats Bureau
So what will Biden do to stop the massive inrush at our southern borders? What will he do to deal with our messed up asylum laws like the 1997 Flores law which allow anyone to stay as long as they say they ask for asylum or they have a kid with them whether its theirs or not.
Look we had probably 1,000,000 show up at our southern border last year (they apprehended only 400,000). You can be the most lib, open minded person out there but even those have to say “enough is enough”. Our sanctuary and asylum laws encourage people to come here. Will Biden fix that? Nope. Biden is for decriminalizing illegal border crossings, abolishing ICE, eliminating border fences, and will stop deportations. LINK
Democrats allow illegals to vote in local elections.
You say we are NOT crowded? Where will those million illegals go to live? Most likely in border states like California. How many homeless does LA already have? How many people already on welfare?
Hell yes I want the government to step in and stop wealthy meatpacking plant owners from deliberately hiring illegals. Some of those places are owned by large multinational corporations. Dont you?
I dont think the cost of meat will rise too much because any costs saving from using half price illegals goes into the pockets of the owners, not passed on to consumers.
What could possibly be done? Mexico and Central America are largely non-functional, with little chance of a decent life for millions. So of course many of those folks are going to try and have a decent life, which may mean their only chance is to come here. The only way to fix this is to fix those countries. We could have something to do with that (by punishing those countries Trump is actually making this much, much worse, and thus increasing demand to cross the border), but as a general rule, we can’t fix other countries.
But this isn’t a cause for fear. These people aren’t going to hurt you, by and large. The vast majority would make great Americans, and will do great work in a lot of difficult jobs that need to be done.
These powerless brown people are not the problem with America. The problem is wealthy and powerful interests trying to manipulate us to be afraid of each other, and afraid of brown people, rather than rightfully focusing our ire on them.
Right now you’re fulfilling their plan – you’re more scared of brown foreigners than rich and powerful Americans who are making life far worse for working Americans than a hundred million immigrants ever could.
Great I agree. I bet we can even find some common ground on HB1 visas. But that’s a longer, much more complicated subject and I’m not even sure I am on the right side of it myself, for selfish reasons.
I really don’t think you understand economics or capitalism. That’s not how any of it works.
Tysons Foods is not going to eat the costs of rising wages. They have investors and shareholders to whom they will need to answer for the a sudden loss of profitability due to a huge increase in expenses. They will pass on the cost to the consumer because the consumer is not going to stop eating meat. There may be some re-balancing of cost of meat vs sales of meat, but it sure as hell won’t be covered by the corporations and shareholders.
This is what I mean about you saying unsupported things and refusing to go beyond your current understanding of the world.
Nothing in that article says a goddamn thing about Democrats. It’s a story about municipal officials talking about allowing non-citizens (1/3 of San Francisco is ethnically Asians) to vote for school board members.
Can you tell me why you chose to misrepresent the article that you linked to? Or did you simply not understand what you read and assumed it was those evil democrats at it again?
A good way to stop the massive inrush would be to improve the conditions of the countries from which they come. It’s not as though we do not bear any responsibility for the state that they are in.
If people are looking for asylum, it is because they are coming from a bad situation, one that they have worked very hard to escape.
I actually find it rather sickening that there are those who go out of their way to make sure that someone who comes form such an environment is not allowed to try to find safety or security for themselves and their family.
Yeah, there is a point where enough is enough. For you, that is any number greater than 0. For us “libs”, that number is a bit higher. What that number is is an open question that I don’t know that any two democrats would agree on, but lets just say that we are no where near our “limit”.
In school board elections, to which their property taxes pay and their children attend. I take it that you are fine with taxation without representation?
Well, they would not be “illegals” if we “get our way” and they are let in legally, but I’m sure you would still call them that.
Immigrants have a lower homelessness rate, as well as poverty and crime, than native born citizens. If you are concerned about LA having homeless, then you should be banning people from Mississippi from entering any more prosperous state.
Sure, if employers are breaking the law, then they should be penalized. However, it is not the fact that they are hiring non-citizens that protects them, it is their wealth. And wealthy people get away with quite a few things that they shouldn’t. If you spent half the effort and time that you do on criticizing poor people fleeing violence and poverty on clamoring for the wealthy to play by the same rules as the rest, then your points could be taken seriously.
What penalty do you think should be leveled at the wealthy plant owners who break labor law? Fines, prison, death penalty? These are the consequences that you happily would put upon their workers.
That’s not actually how it works, not at all. But lets say that it does, for the sake of argument. Are you saying that these greedy wealthy owners who are willing to break the law in employing ineligible workers will eat the costs associated with taking on “full price legals”? And, are you actually under some sort of belief that, that if there were no immigrants, the same number of employees would be paid twice what the ineligible workers make now?
That’ll earn you a warning, QS. Do not accuse others of lying, even sort of.
Please don’t do so again.
I find this to be extremely rude and not any bit of “discussion”.
Maybe come up with a better argument than “oh, your just racist”.
Look, every country in the world has immigration laws and has restrictions on who they let in. Why cant we do the same?
I haven’t seen you post anything racist here. I’ve seen you post incorrect things, but I haven’t seen any racist posts – are you saying you are racist? If not, what are you objecting to?
You’re accepting the manipulative propaganda of the wealthy and powerful, who want you to direct your ire at the powerless instead of the powerful. But it’s the powerful and wealthy interests who are to blame, not the powerless. Immigrants are not a threat to Americans – quite the opposite. Billionaires who want you to ignore their misbehavior are a threat, and they’ll use anything they can to get you to focus on something else.
We should and we do. The disagreement is about the specifics.
We absolutely can, do and will.
The discussion is not whether or not there will be restrictions, but on what they are. You seem to want to have 100% restrictions, not born here, not welcome here. Democrats have looser restrictions. Some on the far left even have restrictions loose enough that you could call them “open borders.” I disagree with going that far in that direction either.
Personally, I do not see that our population is growing fast enough to maintain our way of life, and would like to see immigration greatly increased. It is not only a benefit to the immigrants who get to come here and live a better life, it is a benefit to the communities they live in as well.
At the link you provided, Bidens positions are contrary to your claims:
Your own cites provides the answers to your concerns, however, your stated conclusions are in direct contrast to the very cite you provide.
Is it possible that your understanding of Biden’s positions on immigration are uninformed and lead you to draw incorrect conclusions about Democratic party positions on key policy areas?
Do you still believe your political opinions are supported by facts?