This started out as a general question, but I think it might be better suited for Great Debates (if not, mods, please move it), so here goes:
A friend commented on my Mountain Dew drinking with the usual, “I heard the yellow dye in that will make yer nuts drop off.” Remembering the Straight Dope article on this very subject, I told him that the same dye is in many other foods, such as pasta (which is his favorite food of all time.) He claimed that he only eats “organic” pasta, so it isn’t in that. Me, being an arrogant teenager that took AP Biology last year, decided to tell him that organic simply means “containing carbon.” Dictionary.Com lists “of animal or vegetable origin” and “Simple, healthful, and close to nature”.
That last one really gets me. What is that supposed to mean? I’m one of those cynical, “food for the worms” types that scoffs at health nuts when they shop at Boney’s or Henry’s or whatever. I eat charred animal flesh in almost every meal. I don’t get what “organic” really means. Are people just referring to things that contain carbon? Are they referring to things that contain less minerals and more plants/animals. I know that humans can’t create matter. So, technically, doesn’t everything come from nature? Isn’t all matter, organic or not, a chemical. I could be oversimplifying things, but I just don’t get what is so “unhealthy” about things, I don’t know, created in a lab or something like that. Genetic engineering, processed foods, preservatives, etc, etc. Is there something inherently (and scientifically) unhealthy about these things? What compels people to shop at Boney’s as opposed to Vons? I’m not talking religion here, morals, vegetarians/vegans, just wondering what’s so good about carbon?
Okay, then, “USDA national organic standards”…
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Here ya go–Your Tax Dollars At Work. Best of luck, and–be sure you leave a message with someone, telling where you went, before you dive in.
Basically, “organic” means what the National Organic Standards Board says it means. There is no simple standard that applies to all foods either; each product must be submitted for certification, and the Board decides if it is “organic”. This can result in some seemingly bizarre interpretations. Last May, the NOSB ruled that wild Alaskan salmon caught in the open ocean cannot be called “organic”, while farm-raised salmon grown in pens may be eligible for organic status. Go figure.
It’s been decades since organic chemistry, but “organic” in the chemical sense does not merely mean “containing carbon” but something on the order of “containing carbon in combination with hydrogen, oxygen, and/or certain other elements in forms presently or in the past associated with life.” (Which probably begs the question, but excludes things like carbon tetrachloride and carbon monoxide while including methane, bromoform, and DNA.)
As I understand it, the reason that organic foods, drugs, etc. are considered more healthful than those with the same active ingredients added through strictly chemical means is that in the organic foods, the substance is thought to have formed in conjunction with other materials which buffer, ameliorate, and otherwise modify its effect, so that the drastic effects of the isolated chemical are not felt so strongly as in the “artificial” food, drug, etc.
This argument sometimes holds water and sometimes does not; I would hesitate to recommend an organic diet or pharmaceutical regimen on its basis.
The meaning of any word is dependent on the context and the domain in which it occurs; I’m sick and tired of people ‘correcting’ me when I talk about organic gardening.
Yes, to a chemist, the term organic means carbon-based, but to a gardener it means something else; where is the problem with that?
To a chef, ‘cheesy’ means ‘tasting like cheese’; to a film critic it means ‘of poor quality’ - should the chef be correcting the critic or vice versa?
Yeah! And to a chemist, “endothermic” means a reaction that absorbs heat from its environment, while to a zoologist, “endothermic” means an animal that produces its own internal heat. So there!
To a chemist, a “metal” is an element on compound that exhibits certain chemical and electrical properties – but to a stellar astronomer, a “metal” is any element other than hydrogen or helium (so carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and neon are all considered “metals”).
I didn’t really start this thread with the intention of arguing over a word. I was kinda hoping the people that swear by “organic” foods would post their thoughts so I could better understand their position.
Whenever I see the label “organic” on some package of produce, I can’t help but wonder where the INorganic produce might be?
Slightly more seriously, I’ve always felt that when something is labeled “organic” it means it’s been thru a minimal amount of processing before it reaches you. As opposed to the regular processing that produce can have, such as pesticides, hormone injections, coloring and flavoring enhancements, etc.
Here in California, in addition to being grown pesticide-free, the land on which the produce has been grown must be pesticide free for at least the previous three years. Anything less then three years results in crops which must be labeled as “transitional”. There are also stringent requirements for farming using “sustainable practices”, such as rotation of crops, allowing fields to lay fallow sometimes so that nutrients can be restored, etc. More info is here.
A search in Google, using “organic foods” turned up very little. However, I heard a piece on NPR that said tests have shown there is no evidence that organic foods are any healthier than other foods. They also stated that there are lower yields with organic farming (farms, not a backyard garden) and therefore the environment is harmed just as much by organic farming.
I agree that anyone can use the word “organic” anyway they want to use it. To me, it means “expensive”.
“Organic,” when referring to produce, means how it was grown, not what happened to it on its way from the farm to your market. I’m not aware of any post-harvest processing that goes on with any produce, other than a waxy substance applied to some (like apples) to make them look shiny. Hormone injections? Where’d that come from?
CurtC, to give another post-harvest change to produce, oranges from Florida are routinely dyed orange, otherwise they would be somewhat greenish. This sounds like an urban legend, but I did find a cite for it:
Best of luck, and–be sure you leave a message with someone, telling where you went, before you dive in.