What does the first half of the Second Amendment mean?

Looking at just the second half, I think it’s pretty clear that it means that the government may not infringe on the right to keep and bear arms. But many people say that such an analysis ignores the first half. I don’t see how the first part offers a meaningful modification to the second. I’ve tried to get people to explain what they think it means, but have mostly been brushed off (minty green said something along the lines of “I don’t interpret the Constitution based on what I think it means, I interpret on the basis of what it actually means” :rolleyes: ).
Can anyone offer:
An explantion of how the first half modifies the second and
An explanation for how it does so?

For instance, does it completely eliminate the prohibition on infringing on the right to keep and bear arms? Does it restrict the prohibition to certain situations, and if so, what are those situations?

Obviously it means organized state-run paramilitary groups like the National Guard, which is why the right is specifically granted to “the people.” After all, it would have been impossible to more narrowly tailor the language in the second clause to match this strained, constpated, interpretation.

[/heavy sarcasm]

Can you show me where you draw the line between the first half and the second?

state,…(the space between)…the right of the people to keep…

I just have to bring this link over here. If you poke around, there’s some arguement on this very question.
Me? I can’t figure out what the heck it means, not for sure. But I’m not very emotional about this praticular Amendment.
It does seem, though, that there should be a period after “state” and the “t” of “the right of…” should be upper case. Still awkward though.
Peace,
mangeorge

Produce a cite or retract that assertion and apologize forthwith.

But Beagle, there is that annoying (and similar) space between arms and shall.

I find, that the wording of the Constitution, and my repeated reading of it, makes me, use too many, commas.

I think modern punctuation would go more like this:

“A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

IMO…

Nothing at all self-serving about that, Beagle. :wink:

Whoosh!

I don’t see how that changes the meaning.

Professor “Bogus” has an interesting interpretation (Bigol’ law review PDF).

Here you go anti-gunners, run with it. Who said I’m not fair and balanced?

I can’t provide any kind of detailed answer to the OP. I would just argue that I doubt the first half of the amendment was just put there for the heck of it. So I would assume that it must mean something.

Without getting into the whole “what is a militia” issue, I would think that “well regulated” indicates that the authors intended that some regulating would be permitted rather than having each individual decide for him/herself what types of arms are necessary for an effective, well regulated militia.

One may ask who should be allowed to ensure that the militia is well regulated and I won’t speculate except that I’m fairly sure I shouldn’t be able to declare myself a militia of one and just self regulate myself.

JFTR, I am not anti-gun but neither am I bothered by reasonable controls and waiting periods.

Actually, what it means is that I can carry my gun no matter how you interpret the damn thing for the next 33 years.

All of you can bite me. :wink:

SrA Dave, PAANG

“…reasonable controls…”

That’s the whole debate. It’s always illegal to use a gun in the comission of a crime. Enhancements exist at the state and federal level. We have waiting periods. Mere possession of a weapon is already illegal in many places. (That doesn’t seem to reduce crime.) Concealed carry laws are the exception. Where they exist crime hasn’t increased in any statistically significant way. (Some argue the opposite.)

My problem is imagining what it would be like living in Orlando, given our revenue-raising-tourist-ticketing-fast-car-harassing-unsolved-case-files-out-the-ass-long-response-time police force, without a right to possess a weapon in my home.

Despite the rude manner in which it was requested:

[I think it means what the courts say it means. Of course, that’s one of the things that kills me about these threads. I drop by to dispell the vast misconceptions about the legal meaning of the Second Amendment, and everbody thinks I’m just offering my own opinion.

Now, if you want to know what the Second Amendment should mean, in my humble opinion, that’s a different question.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?&postid=3029224#post3029224)

And in what fucking way does that even remotely resemble the utterly false statement you ascribed to me “I don’t interpret the Constitution based on what I think it means, I interpret on the basis of what it actually means”?

There is, as you may recall, a rather serious rule on this Board about falsely attributing words to another poster.

While I think our refreshing friend minty green is being a tad bit more huffy than is strictly necessary, The Ryan’s paraphrase is inappropriate, and grossly misleading.

“…reasonable controls…”

I was thinking about restrictions on fully auto weapons, sawed-off shotguns, things like that. Just saying that some people make the argument that any controls are a slippery slope to the black helicopters coming to confiscate all guns.

I certainly think having a weapon in your home is perfectly fine. (Are there any states or cities where that is not allowed?) I don’t think the 2nd requires that all guns be locked up in some kind of militia armory. Requiring licensing for guns I suppose could fall under “well regulated”. Personally I don’t have much of a problem (if any) with concealed carry laws.

All just my opinion. YMMV.

When somebody lies about you in the very first post of a GD thread, you have my blessing to get as huffy as you like, Panzerfaust.

Here’s a page that more or less jives with my understanding of things:

http://www.sunnetworks.net/~ggarman/militia.html

Essentially, at least Jefferson believed that “the militia” was (quoting from the page now: ) “Every able-bodied freeman, between the ages of 16 and 50”. In short, the phrase “the people” in the 2nd means exactly the same thing it means in the 1st - everyone who’s a citizen of the US.

Further quotage from the page:

“The law requires every militia-man to provide himself with the arms usual in the regular service.”

This is kinda cute - I’m required by the government to own a gun whether I want to or not? I thought a right was something I could choose to do, or not, as I pleased. Something I am required to do is not a right, it is a duty. This is like saying that since I can vote, I am therefore required to do so by law. Needless to say, I don’t agree with Jefferson here.

The page ultimately argues that the militias referred to in the 2nd Amendment are controlled by the state governor, and since he takes his orders from the president, the prez is de facto in control of all the state militias. This would seem to imply a National Guard like structure much like what we have today.
Still, I don’t see why the existance of the National Guard in the first part of the amendment is incompatable with the rest of the plain language of the 2nd amentment, which I read as quite clearly saying that citizens have a right to bear arms:

http://www.mcsm.org/english.html

Basically, as I read the 2nd amendment, here is what I see:

“Since we need militias to ensure our country’s freedom, american citizens will have the right to keep and bear arms.”

Implicit in the definition of “militia” is the idea that the militia is all able-bodied citizens. Further implicit in the amendment as a whole, is the concept that since the militia could be composed of anybody and/or everybody, anybody and/or everybody needs to have the right to bear arms so they’ll have a gun to use if they’re called to serve in the militia.

So in my opinion, the 2nd creates two things: A) The National Guard (the first part), and B) The right of all citizens to keep and bear arms so they can serve in the militia (the second part).
Now, I’ve been deliberately not stating what exactly I think a “right to keep and bear arms” means. Does it cover concealed carry? Does it include only militia arms, such as rifles or pistols that our soldiers carry into battle? On the former I would say no, on the latter I would say yes. But I think I’m fairly happy to leave the exact t-crossing and i-dotting to the courts on this one. Let them hash it out, that’s what they’re around for.

Nor do I think that, since all citizens are guaranteed the right to bear arms, the right to bear arms is completely and totally unrestricted. The first amendment guarantees the right to free speech, but there are still limitations on your right to free speech to guard against obvious abuse. You can’t “shout fire in a crowded theater” when there is no fire, use your speech to incite a riot, etc. I see no reason why similiar restrictions shouldn’t be upon the 2nd.

But ultimately I have to come down more on the side of the pro-gun faction than the anti-gun. It seems pretty clear to me, at least, that there certainly IS an individual right to keep and bear arms guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. There may be reasonable restrictions put upon said right. But still, if Johnny American wants to own a gun, then provided he’s not a felon, mentally ill or someone can prove a clear and present danger in court to his owning it, then he gets it.
-Ben

Boy, MikeRochenelle, are you in trouble. I can see the smoking keyboards from here. :wink:
Better duck.