What Effect Will Trump's Concentration Camps have on his reelection campaign?

[HurricaneDitka]

@Lance_Turbo

I’m pretty sure this sentence from the Red Stater’s article is inaccurate.

Many of those being held did not cross the border illegally. They legally presented themselves at a port of entry and requested asylum.

They didn’t break the law. They showed up on our doorstep and asked for help.

I’d be interested if you had any hard numbers and / or cites about this. Do you know what % of those being detained are asylum-seekers that did not cross into the country without authorization?

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@XT

I found this article pretty compelling on why the whole Concentration Camps thing is bullshit. I’m fairly certain just about no one else in this thread will, and I have no idea of the politics of the people who wrote it. Probably neo-Nazi or conservatives or something like that. I didn’t bother checking and, frankly, don’t give a fuck. The arguments themselves seem pretty compelling to me, so I’m going to quote some from the article. You all probably shouldn’t bother reading since it’s almost certainly some evil conservative organization.

Since you brought it up, I became curious and checked.

About Sarah

Sarah Rumpf was born and raised in Orlando, Florida, now loving life in Austin, Texas, bleeding orange-and-blue Gator, and a Magic fan since the first year they played in a building we called the O-Rena…

…an election and campaign finance law attorney, communications strategist, social media consultant, political consultant, a Republican operative, troublemaker, blogger, journalist, unrepentant nerd, and connoisseur of all forms of snark…

…too young to have voted for Reagan but old enough to remember why we miss him…

Sarah has been a contributor at numerous conservative media outlets, including Breitbart, The Daily Beast, Opportunity Lives, FTR Radio, RedState, Right Wing News, and others. She has had op-eds published in the Austin American-Statesman and Orlando Sentinel, and has appeared as a political commentator on the Ed Dean Radio show, NRA News, Fox 35-Orlando, KFYO 790 AM-Lubbock, and many other radio and TV programs.

BTW, I didn’t find her arguments as compelling as you apparently did.

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@Lance_Turbo

I’m pretty sure this sentence from the Red Stater’s article is inaccurate.

Many of those being held did not cross the border illegally. They legally presented themselves at a port of entry and requested asylum.

They didn’t break the law. They showed up on our doorstep and asked for help.

[And at least one that we know of is in fact a US citizen](Peter Sean Brown).

Side note - hey Bone, which bothers you more: the treatment of people in the camps, or whether or not the thing historians are calling it reminds you of the holocaust? And which have you posted more about?

(And, for shits and giggles, let’s make it a 3-way with that “joke” about the wrong flavor of toothpaste.)

[Musicat]

It appears that some camps are holding people and children in sub-human conditions. Since a significant number of Trump’s supporters consider immigrants to be sub-human, aren’t they getting what they deserve?

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@XT

I never said the article was unbiased…I, in fact, told you not to read it because at a guess it was from a conservative author and probably publication. So, with that out of the way, I disagree. Funding IS the issue. That and just poor planning, as well as political fuckupery on both sides. Trump et al got us into this mess, and the Dems are, IMHO, trying to score points on it instead of trying to fix the core issues.

That lawyer arguing in court last week wasn’t arguing about a lack of funding, she was arguing about a lack of necessity.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

[And at least one that we know of is in fact a US citizen](Peter Sean Brown).

Side note - hey Bone, which bothers you more: the treatment of people in the camps, or whether or not the thing historians are calling it reminds you of the holocaust? And which have you posted more about?

(And, for shits and giggles, let’s make it a 3-way with that “joke” about the wrong flavor of toothpaste.)

The important thing to remember is that there are wrong people on both sides here.

But really, calling these things “concentration camps” hurts the feelings of a lot more people, so let’s get some perspective here, and call that out more. AmIright?

[Ravenman]

@HurricaneDitka

“All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives”.

You think McConnell and Shelby just violated the Constitution?

I don’t think so, but I’ve got a request for you: Go here and read this little article (it’s not very long), and then come back and tell me if you can see how some people might conclude the AAP is something less than entirely non-partisan.

That doesn’t strike me as partisan. Being non-partisan doesn’t mean “not having positions on things.” Those positions seem entirely consistent with advocacy for the well-being of children.

As I look through their positions, they oppose marijuana legalization and most state laws that provide for medics marijuana outside of FDA regulation. That most certainly isn’t liberal orthodoxy.

I see no contradiction with someone holding conservative principles and endorsing the positions they have taken.

Error | AAP

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

XT, I also disagree with your article, but not because ‘conservativism’. It claims they are not concentration camps because the goal is not the elimination of the target population. But- that is the goal. As everyone is pointing out, conditions are bad as a deterrent, to dissuade people from coming. People can leave, sure, if they deport to where they came from. Elimination. And, in conjunction with the deportation scheme of millions that is supposed to start any time now- elimination.

No, they aren’t being gassed. But they are being got rid of. So there. I agree there is a political wrestling match going on as well, and that using the term does tend to draw in the severe historical connotations. But what is more severe- an uncomfortable truth, or toddlers without diapers pissing themselves in detention wondering where the fuck their parents are?

[Euphonious_Polemic]

Advocating for keeping child prisoners in humane conditions is clearly a partisan, liberal position.

[Bone]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

[And at least one that we know of is in fact a US citizen](Peter Sean Brown).

Side note - hey Bone, which bothers you more: the treatment of people in the camps, or whether or not the thing historians are calling it reminds you of the holocaust? And which have you posted more about?

(And, for shits and giggles, let’s make it a 3-way with that “joke” about the wrong flavor of toothpaste.)

The treatment of the people in the camps. I think this is the first I’ve posted about either topic, so tie? I didn’t interpret the toothpaste comment as a joke. It was a statement that essentially said, criticize the substantive issues and drop inflammatory rhetoric.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

Ya buddy. That inflammatory rhetoric hurts people’s feelings you know.

It’s actually about the same as holding children in isolation in horrible unsanitary condition.

[Bone]

@Euphonious_Polemic

Ya buddy. That inflammatory rhetoric hurts people’s feelings you know.

It’s actually about the same as holding children in isolation in horrible unsanitary condition.

I would say holding people in isolation in horrible unsanitary conditions is way worse, but if you feel that way I guess that’s between you and your conscience. Cool story, bro.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

Yep, you got me. That was my exact point. Cool.

[Chingon]

@Bone

The treatment of the people in the camps. I think this is the first I’ve posted about either topic, so tie? I didn’t interpret the toothpaste comment as a joke. It was a statement that essentially said, criticize the substantive issues and drop inflammatory rhetoric.

Could you connect the dots on that for me? I don’t recall seeing anyone complain about as trivial an issue as getting the wrong flavor of toothpaste so it seems like a bit of a non sequitur.

[Musicat]

@Musicat

It appears that some camps are holding people and children in sub-human conditions. Since a significant number of Trump’s supporters consider immigrants to be sub-human, aren’t they getting what they deserve?

In case anyone doubts my POV, consider this:

Nativism is, at its core, a proposition about what kinds of people matter. It says that non-Americans are less deserving than Americans are, that a happenstance of birth means that the US government is not required to treat non-citizens as humans with the same intrinsic moral worth as citizens. The nativist is a person who ranks the value of lives.

If one thing that should come out of the deaths of Óscar and Valeria Ramirez, it’s that nobody should be able to deny what that means.

[Slash1972]

@Broomstick

To answer your question a bit more specifically - about 90% of people seeking asylum in the US apply abroad, which is hardly surprising given only a few nations in the world share a physical border with the US

Refugees who applied for asylum outside the US can ask for a loan to pay for transportation to the US if they can’t provide it themselves. Those who walked here, obviously, have no need of such

I’m going to ignore your incorrect use of terminology, since it’s not important to this discussion.

Do those refugees who applied for asylum outside the US get a loan to pay for transportation to the US before or after they are awarded asylum?

[Railer13]

@HurricaneDitka

I’m aware of some of the reports of conditions in the “camps”. I don’t generally find those sources terribly credible. I think they, like you, have an agenda they’re propagandizing for and pushing, and they’ll pick a couple of anecdotes and try to pretend / imply that those exceptions represent conditions generally.

One of the reports last week of the conditions in one of these places came from the Associated Press, which interviewed a team of lawyers who visited a facility near El Paso. The lawyers interviewed 60 children, and had a few more than a couple of anecdotes.

Do you think the AP is not credible? Or maybe the team of lawyers is not credible?

Perhaps you have a cite that can refute the claims made by the team of lawyers and reported by the Associated Press?

[Slash1972]

@HurricaneDitka

I’m aware of some of the reports of conditions in the “camps”. I don’t generally find those sources terribly credible. I think they, like you, have an agenda they’re propagandizing for and pushing, and they’ll pick a couple of anecdotes and try to pretend / imply that those exceptions represent conditions generally.

You realize that the Administration argued that toothpaste, soap, and blankets are not required at these facilities?

[Monty]

I find it difficult to make a distinction between actively killing people incarcerated and actively creating conditions for incarcerated people in which the perpetrator knows or should know incarcerated people will die in those conditions.

And, yes, these facilities are concentration camps, just as WW2 internment camps were. All death camps in WW2 were concentration camps. That does not mean all concentration camps were/are death camps. But, hey, give Trump and his flacks a few more years and that distinction will likely just be academic.

[Slash1972]

@Monty

I find it difficult to make a distinction between actively killing people incarcerated and actively creating conditions for incarcerated people in which the perpetrator knows or should know incarcerated people will die in those conditions.

And, yes, these facilities are concentration camps, just as WW2 internment camps were. All death camps in WW2 were concentration camps. That does not mean all concentration camps were/are death camps. But, hey, give Trump and his flacks a few more years and that distinction will likely just be academic.

How would you build detention facilities that don’t meet the definition of “mass detention of civilians without trial”?