Which problem, I see many?
Immigration law is not based on private property.
Refugees and other migrants are coming to the US despite poor immigration law.
Poor camp conditions.
Refugees and other migrants are coming to the US despite poor camp conditions.
Anti-migrant politics is popular in the US. Trump and Bernie believe open borders to be a Koch brothers conspiracy and they have a large following.
Trump has some influence over 3, and a tiny bit over 1, but that’s about it.
Is “hyperbolic language” the new " inflammatory rhetoric"?
Can you show us on this doll where the words touched you? I’m sorry the words upset you so, while the horrendous conditions that these children are forced to live in is merely something that you choose to blame on others.
The portions you quote specifically refer to (recent!) detainees’ reports in 2017, not 2015. Notice the heading date on that file – June of 2017. Notice that any time they talk about past events, they qualify it with “On X date”. They did not do that for the portions you quoted. You are spreading (and apparently relying on) false information.
Once again:
Only under Trump did CBP “fail to provide adequate food and water to minors, that it did not maintain the facilities at adequate temperatures, and… deprived the minors of sleep by confining them on concrete floors under bright lights”, and did not provide “soap, dry towels, showers, toothbrushes, and dry clothes”.
These were new complaints under the Trump administration. And the Trump administration is the only one that advocated for purposefully harming children for deterrent purposes.
This is Trump administration policy and execution. Obama is not to blame for the things the Trump administration allowed to occur.
The President only has “some influence” over camp conditions, and use, and policies that separate families? Not that it’s his fucking policy?
And the anti-migrant policies you correctly note are at the wheel are not in any way the result of his own rhetoric and actions?
Okay then. You did answer.
He’s also spreading false assertions – these specific concerns about hygiene supplies, blankets, and such, are unique to the Trump administration.
The language isn’t hyperbolic, if anything it’s toned down out of sheer breathlessness. It’s a description of reality. And if it doesn’t horrify you, the problem is with you.
But okay, let’s say this is all Obama’s fault, even the separation of mothers and babies. Who’s problem is it to fix, and how?
For people who want facts, Dara Lind at Vox has an explainer. She 1) emphasizes how these problems predate the Trump administration and 2) points out how we’re in sui generis territory right now.
Poor conditions have been around for a long time… and the Trump administration has made them worse, presumably because they are on record as putting value on harming migrant children for deterrent purposes.
Family separation is a Trump idea. And it is done in order to make conditions horrible in the concentration camps, and to show asylum seekers that the United States is a horrible place so they don’t come.
Now, if the Trump policy is to make it clear that asylum seekers will be treated horribly, why on earth would Trump and his officials want to treat these children well in the concentration camps? That would defeat the WHOLE PURPOSE of the exercise, which is to deter asylum seekers by showing them how horrible it is here.
Oh, and sorry in advance for the hyperbolic language and the inflammatory rhetoric.
You are wrong and what you are saying is false. Here is a plaintiff filing in the case from December 2016 (filed 12/12/16), when Obama was still President. It says:
Again, all of this is in the court records prior to the start of President Trump’s administration. You are simply wrong on this point. The complaints about toothpaste and soap preceded President Trump. They originated during the Obama administration.
ETA:
You’re wrong.
It’s the government’s job to fix it. Much of that falls on the executive branch, currently led by President Trump, but Congress certainly has a role to play as well (in providing adequate funding for border security and sufficient capacity at detention facilities to alleviate over-crowding). Do we agree on at least this point?
You just provided a new cite! Thank you for the new information, which actually does justify a tiny bit of your attempt to shift blame. Your past cites did not do so, but this one does. Good for you!
Yes, the Obama administration does deserve some of the blame – they did not do enough to ensure these facilities were safe and sanitary. Shame on them.
However, the Obama administration never argued these hygiene supplies were unnecessary; the Obama administration never argued that harming migrant children was necessary for deterrent purposes; and the Obama administration did not routinely use dehumanizing rhetoric about migrants. The Trump administration has done all those things, and therefore it’s far more reasonable to presume the deterioration of conditions in these facilities is purposeful.
Hopefully you’ll join us in our horror at the even worse conditions for these children in the present, and resolve to fight against the Trump administration’s continued efforts to resist improving their conditions because they find value in harming migrant children.
We agree it’s Trump’s problem, not that he sees it as one. He *does *have the fucking money.
Can you agree to stop trying to deflect reponsibility?
How did you reach this conclusion?
This is probably the closest you’ll get to admitting that you were wrong and apologizing for incorrectly claiming I was “spreading false assertions”, so I guess I’ll take it. My past cites all referenced the same underlying complaint about lack of hygiene items, etc. during the Obama administration. That you were unable to grasp that until now is no one’s fault but your own.
I guess that means you won’t join us in our horror at the even worse conditions for these children in the present, and resolve to fight against the Trump administration’s continued efforts to resist improving their conditions because they find value in harming migrant children. How sad. But the Trump administration thanks you in your tacit support for their advocacy of harming migrant children for deterrent purposes.
I did appreciate the new cites, though. It was good to see your posts finally matching, even just a tiny bit, the cites you were quoting.
I think that it’s a positive, baby step forward for Republicans who concede that there are horrendous conditions in these camps, even if they have to get there by blaming Obama. :rolleyes: So next- what are we gonna do about it?
He has the money to pay for his wall on an emergency basis, doesn’t he? You do remember that, don’t you? Just divert some of that to soap and bedding. That doesn’t require Congressional appropriation. And he doesn’t need a cent to stop taking babies away from mothers.
Now, about you ending your attempts at deflecting blame … gonna work on that for us?
For the Trumpers, absolutely nothing, except continue to blame Democrats. Even when the Democrats pass bills that provide funding explicitly for improving these conditions.
I suspect it’s because of the value they place on harming migrant children. If you think harming migrant children is good policy, even as you recognize it’s not popular policy, you’re going to do anything you possibly can to shift blame and deflect attention.