Well, 200,000 people thought it was worth their time. This is only about the entire population of San Bernardino, Ca., so it’s tiny relative to all Indonesia. No one was killed, unlike the similar event on Nov 4.
There is space between “Islam is just like Christianity” and “All Muslims are terrorists”. If you believe the former, I will be interested to read your answer to the OP.
September 30th is Blasphemy Day, but I try to blaspheme a little every single day of the year.
Fuck the Quran!
I don’t know what it is that you think you’ve pointed out here except that ignorance knows no religious, political or national boundaries.
Have you not seen Christian political protests?
I’m in that in-between space. Islam is just like Christianity once was, a halfdozen-hundred years ago or thereabouts. It’s younger. It’s following a similar trajectory.
Huh. Just learned something new. I thought Islam was older. I don’t know why I thought that. I’m as agnostic as all get out, and don’t have opinions of any religion based on its age, so it doesn’t matter much, but I was set straight to a fact today!
Yay us!
If you buy into Jonathan Haidt’s moral foundation idea then this would fall under some combination of purity, obedience to authority, and loyalty. If you’re a liberal these don’t sound like particularly relevant moral realms, but if you’re a conservative they have a big psychological pull.
From the way the article reads, it’s more like the Indonesian equivalent of “Lock Her Up.” Muslims don’t want a Christian leader, so the accusation of blasphemy is the way to get their feathers ruffled. This is a political demonstration disguised as a religious issue.
So if 200,000 people were to crowd Central Park screaming that Neil deGrasse Tyson should be thrown in jail for disparaging astrology, would you say “(condescendingly) Oh, those Manhattanites and their horoscopes :rolleyes:”, or “wow, I had no idea this idea was so widespread and virulent.” ?
If Indonesians were rioting over Poland disrespecting their flag…
[spoiler] compare them
Poland
Indonesia
[/spoiler]It’s a Muslim thing, not an Indonesian thing. It’s common, not just believed by people like Tashfeen Malik. It’s contrary to liberalism. It gives pause to even non-bigots.
You don’t like Muslims?
All the same to me.
It all goes sorta like this…
I demand religious freedom to believe/do/preach whatever I want. I demand the right to discriminate behind the “shield” of religion. I demand the right to make my prejudices and discriminatory shit the law of the land.
But nobody better do it to ME.
That it’s a* protest* and not a murder attempt?
There’s nothing good about it. But if you look at the context of the protests you’ll see they are primarily an excuse to protest against the Indonesian government, and the blasphemy issue is basically a fig leaf. It’s even touched on in your own link.
Nothing inherently bad about a blasphemy protest. It’s freedom of speech. If you want to let people know that blasphemy bothers you, why shouldn’t you be able to protest?
Now, when you get to specifics, it can be shitty. There can be bad stuff that happens that shouldn’t. And, of course, you are free to disagree with the protesters. But that’s no reason to say all such protests are bad…
And, unlike things like racism or unfair treatment or such, “blasphemy” as a moral concept is not inherently bad. It doesn’t inherently hurt anyone. If they want to have things that are forbidden in their religion, they can have those things. They can voice their disapproval.* The problem is in what they do with it.
Of course, if this is a protest about how someone is a Christian and should be treated differently, then that’s not a blasphemy protest. That’s a protest supporting religious bigotry. And, yes, that’s bad. But that’s because pro-bigotry protests are bad.
And, no, that’s not me “disagreeing.” As I’ve pointed out many times, bigotry is different. Bigotry violates the sacred principle of all men being created equal. You can say it’s bad, the same way you can say a pro-murder or pro-pedophilia protest is bad.
*A blasphemy protest against Trump by Christians would have been a welcome sight to me, for example. That sort of man should be prohibited in their religion, but 80% of white Evangelicals don’t care about 1 Timothy 6:3-4.
Your point is good, but you’ve got one wrong. Purity is very often important to liberals. It’s the reason for the ultra-left food stuff, like no GMOs, all organic, stuff like that. That other stuff is “impure.”
I also wish to point out that, as a liberal, “obedience to authority” and “loyalty” are not inherently bad, I just don’t see how they aren’t inherently inferior to the other aspects, such as “don’t harm others” and “fairness.”
It seems we all agree with that to some extent. Even conservatives think obedience to evil is bad: Nazis weren’t okay becuase they were just following orders, and, in the military, you have a requirement to disobey unlawful orders. (and conservatives are much more pro-military, in general). Similarly, a parent’s loyalty to their children when that child is a murderer is often decried on the conservative side.
So it seems that Conservatives to put those other things first, so there’s no real reason we can’t work together, and make a paradigm that works for both.
At least, that’s what I’ve always thought since I read about this stuff.
Being riled up over blasphemy is not unique to Islam. It’s not even unique to still have laws about it.
You can add conditions until you find a restriction that makes “it” uniquely about Islam, but even if you say “Well there are no Christian nations with death sentences for blasphemy” that is a statement about the political conditions in the world. Plenty of extreme Christians believe blasphemy should be punishable with death.
I hate to say “examples please,” but examples please.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/community/smithfield-herald/sh-opinion/article18081173.html
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-WhatisDominionTheolo.pdf
Interesting, considering so many more real and more legit religions would consider Dominionism to be heresy.
Basically, a homegrown ISIS.
You don’t even have to dig down as deep as the Dominionists to find Christians who believe that blasphemy should be punished by death, although their views tend to be more personal belief than institutional doctrine. E.g., the French Catholics who made death threats against the staff of an Avignon gallery for displaying the notorious artwork “Piss Christ” by Andres Serrano.
For lower-stakes official prohibition and punishment of blasphemy among Christians, consider that just a few years ago a man was convicted in Greece on blasphemy charges for satirizing a revered Greek Orthodox monk.
I would go to a pro-blasphemy protest.