At present, Egypt is going through the kind of disorganized, mass-based revolution where the revolutionaries do not seem to have any clear idea of what they want, only that they don’t want the current regime. (Similar to what happened when Communist governments fell in Eastern Europe and the USSR.) Even the MB seems kind of up-in-the-air – at least, based on discussions in other threads, might be amenable to several different forms of political systems. Since most elements of the protesters have never been or been represented in government even as a party in opposition, they have never really had to flesh out their agendas. What do they want, really? What do the people want? Everybody’s worried about this revolution producing an Islamist or military dictatorship (Communist dictatorships are out of style), but I haven’t seen much discussion of what happens if it doesn’t, and the people really get to meaningfully vote on their future. What would they choose? What alternatives are even out there for them? And what is this revolution supposed to achieve? The people resent the power and wealth of the elite – how would they deal with it? Egypt is filled with educated, unemployed young men who made this revolution if anyone did – how are they to be provided with jobs?
Watching Piers Morgan Tonight, and the commentators say the MB (1) hates al-Qaeda, mutually, even though Westerners seem to view them as the same, and (2) would only get 20% of the vote if it were a party in free elections. FWIW.
An Islamist, populist dictatorship . Probably anti-Israel, possibly anti-American.
Yea. That’s precisely why they’re calling for an end to dictatorship and free and fair democratic elections.:rolleyes:
And if they want to elect an anti-Israel or US government that’s their affair and theirs alone.
Well, all the cards are on the table. Intentions and reasons why US is doing the backing of Mubarak is clear. The real question is can Egypt (or any other country) truly come up with their way at all? Can they sort out themselves from those who are doing other interests bidding vs. those who want to live in freedom, peace and prosperity.
I find it truly bigoted and mean spirited the idea that somehow Egyptian people want war – as soon as possible, mind you – as a replacement for dictatorship. This just goes to show that they cannot win either way – weather they live in dictatorship or they fight for freedom. They seem to be branded for all eternity.
By the way, Anderson Cooper was very angry last night and it was refreshing to see him describing that regime in worst possible terms. He called regime to go and that’s what brave and responsible journalists do.
They want what everybody wants: a society that puts Egyptian interests before those of foreigners, and the interests of the common man before the interests of elites.
A place where you can do what you want within reason, live without fear of either criminals or the police, and where hard work and talent is more important than being the son or daughter of some bigshot.
Same as you want. Same as I want.
…but they DO!! get to choose.
All peoples do.*** “No government sits in power without the consent of the governed”***
Everyone everywhere has exaclty the government that they want, and that they deserve.
Meanwhile … back on Planet Earth.
Yeah, right. The people of Myanmar / Burma, China, Tibet, etc. all have precisely the Gov’'t they want… (In the same bizarro world universe as the Egyptians do).
It’s amazing what getting roughed up a little can do for a person’s political outlook.
Yes, and the buzzing of the bees in the peppermint trees by the soda-water fountain. But what about specifics? How do Egyptians think they can get there? Islamism? Free-market capitalism? Socialism? Social democracy? Decentralization (at present all provincial governors are appointed by the president)?
Even bigger protest turnout today, “hundreds of thousands” in Tahrir Square, rejecting Mubarak’s concessions and demanding he go.
Dude, you don’t have to post that in each individual Egypt thread.
Of course I do. If I miss one, the Gollywoggles will get me!
As much as you might like to think so, armed revolution means that society has failed. It may be necessary at times, but it’s certainly not something to be happy about, or look forward to.
Even George Washington would have happily stayed a British subject, if things had been handled fairly.
I’m glad to hear that you want and deserve Obama though. That makes me happy, since you’ve said some pretty bad things about him.
I think it’s funny that Mubarak is using the threat that if he goes, something worse will take his place. Musharraf did the same thing to try and justify his hold over Pakistan. When will we stop being manipulated by this tactic?
Originally Posted by Susanann
…but they DO!! get to choose.
All peoples do. “No government sits in power without the consent of the governed”
Everyone everywhere has exaclty the government that they want, and that they deserve.
George Washington “chose” to remain a British subject, until 1776, at which time he and the American people “chose” a different government. So it is with all people everywhere and anywhere. All peoples of the world have the government that THEY want (else, they would change it).
As far as obama, obama is exactly what a majority of Americans want…and deserve. If Americans did not want obama, then obama would not be here.
What you fail to see, is that people ALWAYS!!! get the government they want, and it doesnt matter if I or someone else thinks that the people should have allowed a different government. It also does not matter if you or I do not like the kind of government that the people of Myanmar/Burma,China, Tibet, or Egypt choose to live with - it is T"HEIR choice.
Hey, it’s certainly not a disinterested threat, but it’s not empty. Something worse could replace a dictator – either an even heavier dictator like in Iran, or total chaos like in Iraq not long ago. I’m not worried about that in Egypt’s case, though – not so long as the army continues to play nice.
On the one hand I guess it is a possibility, but on the other it seems to me to be an obvious ploy, and one that the Obamam administration is buying into. It’s sad to me that we’re backing a known oppressive government out of fear that Egypt will get a Muslim government. I know we’re trying to protect our interests, and protest Israel, but I think that if and when Egypt get democracy, they’ll have even less reason to want to be friends with us or work with us knowing that we backed their oppressors.
And the fact that Obama administration thinks that Suleiman will help lead an orderly transmission to democracy is a joke.
Well, I tend to think that his threat is not empty. I’m sure that a corrupt regime like that holding on for that long creates a legion of followers who know that people know everything and hour of accounting is coming. It is understandable they would like to avoid it or at least delay as much as possible.
However, if I were to control things somewhat I would be looking into some core group in the Egyptian army to perform bloodless coup and take care of things. The problem is, I think, Mubarak does not want to run away. So, it might get complicated…