What happened to compassion, forgiveness, and rehabilitation?

Great Debates
1

From http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=185749

Now, in this case the poster was speaking of someone who had been convicted of child porn possession.

But… what happened to compassion, forgiveness, and rehabilitation when it comes to criminals?

As far as I see, there is little discussion in our society of rehabilitating prisoners.

My Uncle, who committed murder as a teenager, has had to deal wth people behaving as if he will do it again. Ignore the fact that he has been active in programs to rehabilitate prisoners and to teach them that they do not have to return to the life they had and they can live in a state of atonement.

No, my Uncle can never make up for what he did. He took a life. That is not something that can be undone.

Yet he can and is a contributing member of society that teaches others by the example he puts forth. He is not evil. He made a hideous mistake and is working on doing what he can to make sure it doesn’t happen again to someone else.

I hear too often the belief that people cannot change and that a convict cannot be rehabilitated.

No matter what faith or lack thereof, why has the ability to forgive and believe in the ability of others to change for the better died off in our society?

2

Well, I think that when a lot of people hear about a serious crime being committed, they get a sense of outrage, and the “lock him up for life” or “kill him” attitude represents that. That’s especially true when the crime is especially horrific, like child molestation, or a sadistic killing. That’s why, for example, Jeffery Dahlmer and his crimes incite more revulsion than someone like your uncle.

So I don’t think belief in rehibilitation is dead…we still have parole boards, sentences still get suspended, etc. It’s just in some cases, horror can overcome our willingness to forgive.

3

Dahmer was a horror show for a multitude of reasons(I lived in Milwaukee at the time).

I understood the anguished cries for his death and the severe schadenfreude about his death that the families of his victims expressed.

I had a friend who expressed that once one broke the law and were incarcerated, that was it, no coming back.

He suggested executions to reduce crime and the cost of incarceration.

He’s not the only person I have known that espoused this view.

4

Which would suck if you get convicted for jaywalking. But I think in a lot of cases, it’s frustration. People see the revidicism, they hear about things like cable tv in prisons and educational programs available, and ask, “Why is my tax money going to coddle these criminals? They need to be punished for what they’ve done”

5

I think forcible separation from society combined with rehabilitation, sans tv should be the goal.

6

I don’t think it has died off, just that it is unpopular, like Jesus was with the authorities. How we treat others is a reflection of our own inner emotions. People who hate themselves will hate others, etc. Until we learn a lot more about our own mistakes, we will continue to harm others. Can people change? Yes, and dramatically. Near death experiences can change a murderer into a saint in a moment. Your uncle is doing good works now like Deke.

http://ndeweb.com/dekelove.htm

Love
Leroy

7

Rehbilitation of offenders ?

Don’t make me laugh, they will only stop committing offences when they are ready to do so, no amount of courses will ever change that.

The scum I deal with are red hot keen to do all the courses that they are assigned in their sentence plans, things like Reasoning and Rehabilitation - R&R, anger management, drug awareness(as if they don’t already know what that’s about!) and dozens of others such as basic literacy and numeracy.
The only reasons they are keen to do these courses are,

1 They can avoid working whilst in prison
2 They use it to provide evidence of compliance and rehabilitation so they can get, a) a better cell, b)a nicer, less secure prison, c)a tv set, d) they can get out of prison a little earlier.Pretty much in that order.

Yet they still keep coming back.

It is extremely rare to see first time offenders in prison, they will have gone through all the other methods of punishment/rehab first such as community work etc.
By the time they get to jail they will usually have a string of convictions and these will go back to their early, and even pre-teen years.

It would be cheaper and less harmful on the rest of us if they were simply locked up for very very long periods of time until they were physically unable to commit more offences.

We could shut down all those expensive courses and redirect the resources into keeping young folk from crime in the first place, basic things like ensuring that they actually attend school and then employment programs where they learn skills.

Once in jail it is just a revolving door, it usually takes them around 30 to 35 for them to get a clue.

Some of these folks are the coolest folk you will ever meet, very interesting to talk to, and they have a wide range of life experiences, even so, it still does not give them the right to rip society or just theor own families aprt in the perusance of wealth, drugs or satisfaction.
Sure forgive them, but don’t let them out!

8

I don’t think it’s died off either but we as a people are disillusioned because of all the repeat offenders. My older brother for example is a 5 time offender. Each was for statutory rape or sexual abuse (rape) of a minor. He has been thru therapy for 10 YEARS, been in prison for 7 and on probation for 3. He is still the same person, doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong and refuses to change. He is a predator of young girls. He probably will always be as such but he is now wandering around the country as he pleases. Probably preying upon another unsuspecting girl.
It’s persons like this that cause us (collectively) to say just kill them. I would much rather my brother be rehabilitated but since he’s obviously a lost cause then the only other alternative sans a life in Club Fed is death. I’m one of those that is tired of paying for convicted mass murderers and rapists’ room and board. Hell most of them live healthier lives than I do. 3 hot meals and a workout center? WTF? Why should I have to pay for that? I say if they are guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt (IE been caught in the act) and they have been convicted before then take them out back of the court house and shoot them in the head. Quick, painless and CHEAP. The cost of a trial and a bullet.
(mind you I’m not talking about jay walkers here, I’m talking about VIOLENT offenders and repeat pedophiles only) We could use the money saved to rehabilitate first time offenders (or TRY)

9

How does that song go: “What ever happend to peace, love, and understanding?”:slight_smile:

Yeah, it’s a knee-jerk reaction from someone who is thinking with their emotions instead of their brains. I usually don’t listen to that kind of rant, and there’s no use in responding.

10

Politicians found out that they make for a lousy campaign speech.

11

**

Some people are tired of crime, particularly violent crime, and have very little compassion or forgiveness. It isn’t difficult to show some compassion for petty crimes such as vandalism or petty theft but I’m not going to show any compassion for violent criminals or someone who rifles through my house and takes my valuables.

**

How do we rehabilitate hardened criminals? I’d love to but I don’t know of any truly effective programs.

**

That’s just part of the consequences of committing murder. Would you trust a convicted rapist or domestic abuser to date someone you loved?

**

Filling in answer “A” when you meant to fill in “B” is a mistake. Murdering someone is a bad decision not a bad mistake.

**

I’m convinced that a person can change and be rehabilitated.

Recidivism of prisoners for one thing. Let’s not forget that most people convicted of major crimes have had many minor brushes with the law over the period of a few years. If your uncle went from being crime free to a murderer that would be somewhat unusual.

Marc

12

I’m for compassion, forgiveness, and rehabilitation up to a point. The “three strikes and you’re out” principle is ok with me.

13

Having experience in the field, I can say the following:

1 - No one can be rehabilitated. They can only rehabilitate themselves. The best any system can do is offer opportunities and advise for those willing to use them.

2 - No matter how heinous and pervasive the crimes, there is no one who is beyond the chance of rehabilitation. However, the majority of criminals will never rehabilitate themselves.

3 - The majority of prisoners in any rehabilitative program are simply seeking to abuse the system for their own ends.

4 - Statistically speaking, sexual criminals are the category of criminal least likely to ever stop commiting their crimes.

14

Hm.
Also having some experience in the field, I can say

  1. Yep.
  2. Yep.
  3. Yep.
  4. Dunno. Don’t have that much experience with them. Believe it, though.

And the problem is that people seem unable to understand/accept both halves of #2.

15

Then why are you in this thread, and why did you post?

Attention seeking, much?

16

I don’t generally see all that many serious sex offenders but their recidivism does not surprise me.

Whilst in prison and among the general population of inmates, they keep out of trouble and do not draw attention to themselves in the interest of personal safety, other inmates would tear them apart if they knew of their crimes(inmates do not know of the offences of others unless they know each other directly or have had illegal access to computor recors, which has been known to occur)

Sex offenders are generally model prisoners, but then this is not surprsing since they are in an environment where they cannot express their perversions.
Junkies in jail buy and sell drugs, and steal from each other and behave pretty much as they do when they are at liberty, but for sex offenders there is no way they have access to children.

The only way a junkie is clean is when they can say to themselves that not only do they not consume drugs, but that they can resist the craving when they are easily available, and one does see this in jail.

The same cannot be said of sex offenders, they can go on the treatment programs and they can fill out their work sheets, sit in groups and discuss things and look at the effect of their crimes on others, but the fact remains that you can’t rehabilitate them because they are outside the environment in which they commit their crimes.

If we were to try and rehabilitate them outside of jail and in the environment they commit their crimes the public would quite rightly be concerned that risks were being taken at the expense of children just to try and keep these sex beasts from more offences.

In some UK jails it is not unknown for sex offenders, and particulary pedophiles, to fantasise even more trying to obtain child porn materials.

17

I think compassion, forgiveness and rehabilitation IS still around but I also think it depends on the crime.

If someone is jailed for say, tax fraud - you know it’s unlikely they’ll try it again when they get out. Killing someone? Depends on the circumstances really - and I think the culture. We’ve just had a spate of killings within the Turkish comunity here - all drug related - and this may well be how it works in Turkey. I know in other countries life is cheap and easily extinguishable. And I do believe when these offenders are released they will go straight back to the life they know.
As for paedophiles? They really can’t help themselves. They can’t overcome this need that they have. I know of one partcular guy - looked like someone’s lovely old grandad but he was guilty of procuring young boys to photograph and sell their pictures. This led on to him sending them to Amsterdam where they ended up in “snuff” movies, This is a fact. He was exposed on telly (after he had served some time) by a journalist “doorstepping” him. All the kids in my area told me how he used to try to bribe them but they all thought he was a weirdo - those were the lucky ones! You just know someone like him will never be rehabilitated - chemical castration can only be part of the answer - it can take away the sexual desire but it will never take away the desire for money to be made. Shame that…

18

It is “out of style” but it will come back. Our existing system is stupid and expensive: we incarcerate prisoners in an environment that all but guarantees recidivism, release them to the external world with inadequate post-incarceration programs and follow-through into an unforgiving social environment that helps completes that guaranteeing process, and it’s costing us a fortune.

We need a system that responds to initial violations with compassion et. al., and which furthermore takes into account the possibility that the violator has in fact been socially violated him/herself and attempts to address that as well. A serious effort needs to be made to bridge the communication gap and reunite the individual and the society in such a way that they can trust each other.

Then if it doesn’t work, we kill them. Not as punishment, not in anger, but because it’s better for everyone overall if there’s no way to reconcile the problem. A nice pleasant IV heroin drip gradually increased to OD levels, perhaps.

No more prisons. No more people in cages like animals and guarding people to yell at them and impose rigid rules and coercions upon them.

19

AHunter3

Generally repeat offenders get lots of chances to go straight, they get community service orders, they get sent to close supervision schools, they get electronic tagging, and they get fined, yet despite all these chances they keep doing it.

They are pretty much career criminals before they ever see the inside of a prison.

These people are largely unemployable, they bunked off school when they were maybe ten years old, often with the connivance of their stupid paren, they have generally got flawed reasoning and paranoia, and commonly have mental problems exarcerbated by drug consumption.

You could argue for closer supervision of youths and better supervison and training of parents, but once they have got into jail its pretty much the end of their future for the next twenty or thirty years when they will be in and out of bother.

There are a host of courses for them to fulfill in jail but its just a waste of money.
Close all those courses down, in my jail we have around 15 drugs workers, maybe a dozen psychologists, perhaps twenty or so probation staff, plus all those involved in education, maybe twenty of those, and then the staff who run the other types of courses such as health and safety, would add another ten or so.

All these people have to coordinate their work, they have to push out reports which folk such as myself have to fill in, the cost in time s immense, and it is virtually all wasted.

These criminals do the same courses sentence after sentence, and they just hold the well meaning staff who operate them in contempt.

All those staff are fairly well paid I’d say in total there’s around 70 or more trying to reduce the offending behaviour of criminals, and that add up to one huge amount of cash, perhaps as much as £1.5millions, and this jail is a fairly small one.

You could multiply up those sums somewhat in the larger city jails.

Killing them is not an option in the UK, due to the European Human Rights Act.
I personally think we should simply lock them up in their cells until they are too old to walk out unaided, forget the pretence of rehabilitation.

20

So get to them sooner. Either way, the existing system doesn’t work worth a damn.

And it’s cruel and inhuman to force people to stay alive in captivity if you don’t intend on releasing them.