What happened to make car buying such a sleezy endevour?

In My Humble Opinion
21

A few years ago my girlfriend wanted to buy a new Camry.
I used Consumer Reports to find a fair price, and that is what she paid
after about an hour of us negotiating at the Toyota dealership.

About a week later she was having buyers remorse, and wanted to see what
a comparable used Camry would sell for at Carmax.

We found a one year old Camry, comparably equipped, but with 20,000 miles on it at Carmax.
The Carmax price was about a hundred dollars more than what she paid for her brand new Camry…
About an hours negotiation was worth it to get a brand new car instead of a used one.

22

That’s the reason I bought my Honda Fit brand-new last year. My understanding was that late model used Hondas and Toyotas sell at only a very slight discount to new ones, so that it’s not worth it to buy them used.

23

Yeah, but you don’t want to be unfair to Carmax. I mean, it’s only money, after all. I know I sleep a lot better knowing that while I may have paid a thousand dollars more than I needed to, I didn’t have a slightly tense quarter of an hour with people I’ll never see again and everybody’s happy! Yay!

24

After which they will try to get back any discount on the new car by shorting you on the trade-in.

This is why I’ve stopped following the recommendation to negotiate two separate deals, one for the new car and one for the trade. Do your homework and it’s much less hassle to dicker over one price for the entire deal.

25

I too am amazed that car and matress salesmen continue to be so sleezy, especially in the Internet age where everyone can do extensive research at home before they ever interact with a dealer.

Personally, I feel comfortable bargaining, but as a starting point, I see what the starting price is at Costco. If the out the door price isn’t as good as theirs, then I can stop right there. Next step is to remove as many factors from the bargaining equation as possible. Sell the old car first if at all possible. Advertise it on Cars.com or similar service, and get a quote from Carmax, which is usually good for 7 days anyway. Now contact a credit union and get rates and quotes so you have a backup for financing in case the dealer tries to screw you on that. Sometimes the dealer rate is better and sometimes not.

Research the car you want in the color you want, and with the options you want. Now determine your flexibility on those colors/options. Call around and find out which dealers have what cars. Sometimes this is not always close by. For example, my current car is an Infiniti and I live in San Diego. The model I wanted in the color and options I wanted was rare. I think there were five in the whole city. Meanwhile, if I was willing to go to LA, one dealer alone had 20 of them, and most others had six or more. So, I made a day of it, had my wife drive me, and spent the entire day running dealers through the ringer.

It took about four hours and I visited three separate dealers, but I ultimately got it for $700 less than Costco, and I got it from the dealer who had 20 of them. I warned the first two dealers who jerked me around that if I sensed I was being jerked around I would walk away. Sure enough, they did, and I walked away. Both attempted to stop me and I told them they were too late. When I walked into the second dealership, I told them I had just come from the first dealership and had left for the following reasons… Then when I went to the third dealership, I let them know I had left two other dealerships for the following reasons… This made the third dealership take me very seriously. Once there, the whole transaction took less than 45 minutes. I ended up using their financing which was better than the terms the credit union gave me, and I read the paperwork twice to make sure there was no fishiness. I also told them that I considered this sale final and that any attempt on their part to pull some post deal shenanigans with extra charges would result in me immediately returning the car and demanding a full refund, and bringing them to court for any money they didn’t pay me due to any kind of “wear and tear or depreciation”. I got assurances from all parties involved everything was kosher and didn’t have a problem with them.

I accept the fact I’ll be unhappy dealing with them and prepare to do combat with them right from the start. I always give them the option to not be douchebags and let them know immediately when they have been and why in an effort to change the system, but so far, the world works the same way it always has

26

Good for you. And you probably took the right tack.

But it still sucks that you even need to go into “consumer Highlander” mode to just buy a damn car.

We bought a new car a few months ago. I dreaded it for weeks. I felt ill the day of. It was actually almost pleasant. Or maybe it was just pleasant compared to how bad its been in the past…

27

With regard to the commission versus giving them a good wage, part of it is that this is the type of job that attracts the type of person to be the grating, sleazy power salesman. You see it to a lesser degree at places where the salesman’s pay isn’t directly tied to his sales. A disproportionate number of them will just be pushy. That’s what makes them ‘good’ salesmen and why they seem to be drawn to sales jobs.

28

Interesting thread. I have bought used cars from dealers and individuals, and new cars from dealers. Never had a problem. I don’t go into the dealership with a big attitude, just expect to be pleasant and be treated fairly. Before visiting I have already done my research and know exactly what I want. The prices are all on the internet including lease rates (and no they are not for suckers if they are tax deductible and you can do math) and I expect to be able to negotiate something a bit better than that. I also usually have a color and trim package in mind, and have always gotten the one I want when the dealer realizes I really don’t mind waiting a month or two if necessary.

29

I’ll be heading back to this thread – later this year we’re going to be buying a new minivan. Last year’s research puts us in a Toyota Limited (or something, the AWD model), so unless another manufacturer puts out something similar, we’re pretty set on what we’re looking for. We’ve gone over most of the options (available then), so know that there are only a couple things that we want. Barring some bizarre set of circumstances, we’ll be paying cash so a lot of the numbers games won’t come into play.

My plan is to arrive at the dealers with an easy-to-read sheet with columns for each dealer. I don’t want to throw any attitude, I just want them to know that I’ve done my homework and am doing my comparison shopping–hopefully that will hold the BS at bay, and hopefully that will make the travel time the longest part of the negotiations.

We do have one quirky request: absolutely no permanent dealer markings. I don’t care if they throw on a Tom’s Toyota license plate frame that I can remove, if it shows op with a sticker or stuck-on emblem, I want to be able to refuse delivery. Anyone ever work something like that into the contract? Anyone had a dealer put one one anyway and play chicken on the day of pickup?

30

My brother will only buy with that stipulation. He says he’s paying enough money for the car that he doesn’t also have to be a mobile billboard for the dealership. My ex-FiL is the same way and actually had one show up with dealership plastered on after explicitly stating he would not accept one that arrived with it. He refused to leave until they removed it and he was content that the removal had not damaged the paint.

31

Rhythmdvl - I can’t imagine a dealer would risk losing a sale over something like that.

Honestly, when I first moved to Texas, I was amazed when I would always see cars that would have extra raised lettering that was the dealer’s emblem stuck to the car, often just below or above the make or model of the car on the back to read something like ‘McComb’s TOYOTA’. Equally obnoxious is when they would use a sticker attached directly to the paint.

Here in California, your car traditionally comes with a custom license plate frame that is a nicer metal with the dealer’s name on it, but you will never see the obnoxious emblem or sticker used. And you have the option to just take off the frame with no risk of damaging the paint or any part of the car. I have never known a Texan who would put up with unnecessary bullshit, so I would love to know how this practice started. I would think the first time a dealership did it, people going to their showrooms would have walked out for that reason alone. Who the hell wants to give free advertising to a car dealership at the cost of damaging their paint job on their new vehicle if they remove it?

32

Awesome–glad we’re not alone.

My minor fear is that on pick-up day they’ll have one on and threaten (or imply) that they’ll sit on our deposit if we don’t pick it up.

33

I think most people flat don’t care, and the ones that do, have the dealership remove it before driving off the lot.

I’d refuse to take deliver or pay them for the car if they didn’t do that.

And if you think those stickers/emblems are bad, they used to stamp the dealership name and city into the steel bumpers of old Chevy and Ford trucks, and then sometimes highlight it in contrasting paint.

34

It’s all a big game but I believe the suckers feed into the cycle as much as the dealerships do.

There. Fixed that for you.

35

Er… if you can do math and are in a positon to claim your vehicle as a tax deduction, then you would be better served to own the vehicle and claim the interest on the loan, gas, maintenance, and repairs.

As for the sleazy salesmen, they will use the lower leasing payments to get you to commit to a more expensive car that you couldn’t afford to buy. Secondly, you enter into a contract that strictly controls your mileage and all repairs/maintenance work, usually provided by the dealership at your cost.

A customer that comes through the with every iintention of buying a specific car, will pay close to full price with little negotiation, and is willing to wait a month or longer?!
That’s a car salesman’s dream!

36

It sounded like he did his pricing research first, not that he was willing to pay full price with little negotiation. His research could consist of looking solely at dealer Web sites, but that seems a bit odd.

As for leasing, when we regularly saw clients (particularly when they would see/ride in our car) the lease made sense from a business perspective more than an accounting perspective. It’s not that I disagree with the general view that financially, leases are losses. But I think they’re like boats; you can’t always look at just the financial bottom line to decide if something is worth it or not.

Not that I either lease a vehicle or own a boat. Heck, I’m not even planning on financing a vehicle.

37

Not sleazy in the plaid-coat-checked-pants-big-cigar sense, but when I bought a new car recently I ran into a tactic that was kind of insulting to my intelligence.

I’d been watching the price of a local dealer’s bait car*, and about three weeks ago it reached a point where I figured it was worth looking at. I went to the dealership, located the car (the dealer had included the stock number in the ad), contacted a salesbeing, took a test drive, and sat down to discuss prices. The salesbeing went off to get a worksheet from a shadowy third party (not the sales manager, that came later), and what he came back with listed an MSRP five thousand or so above the car I’d just driven. He explained that the advertised car wasn’t the same as the car in question, so I couldn’t expect the same price. This led to the following exchange:Me: That’s funny, here’s the ad with the stock number, and here’s the stock number on the keytag. Sure look the same to me.
{pause}
SB: I guess I’d better have him write this up again.
Me: You do that. I’ll wait.I was half expecting him to start in about misprints and such, and was prepared to walk out without another word if he had. It may be that he realized the same thing, because there was remarkably little bushwa for the rest of the transaction**. Bottom line is that I got the car for about 10% less than I had budgeted. My father (on whom be peace) could have done better; but I don’t like to see anyone, even a salesbeing, curled up in a fetal ball and whimpering — a not uncommon result of trying to deal with him.

(The selfsame father taught me years ago that while a salesman might not make as much as he’d like when dealing on your terms, he won’t make a brass farthing if you walk out. He knows it, and the trick is to make him aware that you know it too. I can’t pull it off as well as my father could, but every once in a while I come within shouting distance.)

The thing that sticks in my craw is, like the business with Rep Weiner’s wiener, the jaw-dropping stupidity of the scam (if scam it was). The stock number was in the ad and on both the keytag and window sticker, so it would take someone without the intelligence that Og gave mayonnaise (as Dave Barry would say) to fall for it. Perhaps I looked even stupider than I usually do, or else it was SOP for that salesbeing or dealership. For the sake of my ego, I hope it was the latter, though that doesn’t give me oodles of confidence in either one. I’m not completely averse to attempts to scam me — it’s my fault to a certain extent if I fall for it — but I’d appreciate a bit of subtlety in the bargain.

Ah well, I escaped with both a new car and an intact financial situation. These days, I’d have to count that a win.

  • The one that advertises for an absurdly low price which gets there via a collection of discounts that no mortal can ever hope to achieve. In this case, the list included a lease return discount and a tradein/tradeup discount.
    ** About the only thing was the sales manager’s sheet of add-ons and warranties at ridiculously inflated prices that he could give me a “special deal” on, but I was ready for that and avoided most of it (though I did spring for a LoJack).