There will have to be an eventual process in which there is a two state solution (with removal of settlements clearly defined borders) However, this lead me wondering, how do the Israelis and Palestinians or the Arab world for that matter, reconcile or work out a process in which both communities can move forward with overcoming the legacy of violence?
What’s the Palestinian plan for building up their state, diplomatic relations, economic growth etc etc?
How does Israeli relations with the Arab world change? What would happen to some of the ire based on Israeli injustices?
Isn’t the evidence already in on that? The Gaza Strip has been effectively independent since what, 2005? The people therein destroyed anything useful the Israelis left behind, dug tunnels for smuggling weapons, and launched rockets at any Israeli population center they can reach.
The day after independence, the new Palestinian Republic gives Israel a casus belli, Israel declares war, invades, smashes a bunch of stuff, kills a lot of people including the Palestinian leadership (except those who flee the country), leaves, a lot of U.N. goods and peacekeepers come in to “stabilize” the place, and if the Palestinians are lucky, they stay in Palestine about as long as they stayed in Cypress, i.e. long enough for a new generation to be born during a shaky but lasting cease-fire.
It’s just that, whenever I ask the question of ‘Ok Palestine gets independence, it’s still going to have Israel next door and they’re both going to have to deal with a bitter legacy of conflict, how do they do that?’ It draws blank expressions on peoples faces, it seems to me that people are so caught up in the present conflict, that they’re ignoring the actual vision of peace they want and have no credible idea of what happens next.
Thing is, the grant of Palestinian statehood will probably not make a game-changing difference - it will bring an easing of certain tensions, it is true, but there will be plenty of grounds for further conflict in the future.
I understand that, but its evident here that there is no clear vision for bringing about a reconciliation, it just seems each side is obsessed with each others defeat, and with no vision for a future where both peoples exist in normality what is there?
So it’s conflict in perpetuity? Didn’t plenty of people in Turkey with the Kurdish situation say the same thing? (I know the conflict isn’t over, however they have made tentative steps on both sides to move forward, somewhat)
ISTM a far more interesting question would be what happens when Palestine *declares *independence, with the tensions being what they are today. My expectation would be that it won’t make much difference, Israel won’t recognize it anyway and the occupation and settlements will continue under some pretext.
cmkeller, I do seem to recall the destruction of Gaza’s infrastructure involving mainly Israeli bulldozers. Perhaps I’m mistaken, that the locals did it all to themselves for some reason.
Elvis, you’re partially correct: residences were destroyed by the Israelis. But commercial and public buildings were left intact, and many of those were destroyed by the Palestinians after the forced evacuation of the Israeli settlers.
You have to look at the wider picture. The Arab-Israeli thing is part of the general set of relations in that part of the world - in which it is hardly an uncommon occurance for various ethnic/religious/national groups to be at odds with the others, where borders (or even the makeup of countries) are in dispute.
Look at Lebanon, Syria, Iraq; the troubles between the Coptic minority and the Muslim majority in Egypt; the tension between Palestinians and ethnic Jordanians in Jordan … the list goes on. Pretty well every single country in the region is beset by similar problems - we just hear more about the Arab/Israeli thing. It is not even the cause of the most devistating series of wars in the region - the Iran/Iraq war killed more people than all of the Arab-Israeli wars by a factor of something like 10.
Palestinian statehood has become talismanic, but its achievement would not change the dynamic all that much.
Your “far more interesting question” has already been answered.
Palestine has, in point of fact, “declared independance” - in 1988!
In order to be recognized as a state, one needs other countries to recognize it as one. Practically, this means UN approval, although of course there are plenty of controversies nonetheless.
More fundamentally, exactly what would be declared a state? The WB and Gaza are governed by different entities.
Even more interesting would be what would happen if people posting in these kinds of threads were aware of cutting edge, breaking developments. Ya know, the type of cutting edge, breaking events that occurred a quarter of a century ago.
ith the tensions being what they are today. My expectation would be that it won’t make much difference, Israel won’t recognize it anyway and the occupation and settlements will continue under some pretext.
You’re also remembering something that you imagined. Gaza’s infrastructure (do you know what that word means, Elvis?) was not bulldozed by Israel. Israeli buildings were. Of course, the synogogues which remained were then bulldozed by the Palestinians, but that’s neither here nor there in regards to your fiction about Israel bulldozing Gaza’s infrastructure.
Of course, even those groups most critical of Israel are able to understand the facts of the matter. You might want to read up on 'em.