What if Hitler had a gravestone?

Ante Pavelic, the mini-Hitler and a monster, maybe you’ve heard of him, but 95% of you probably haven’t, so here’s a short intro.

He was the leader of a nazi puppet state called “independent state of Croatia”. During WW2 after Germany invaded Yugoslavia in 1941. , Yugoslavia was cut up in a bunch of parts (here’s a map https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/Axis_occupation_of_Yugoslavia_1943-44.png/702px-Axis_occupation_of_Yugoslavia_1943-44.png ) , some parts were under direct German/Italian occupation and one part was made into a puppet state, Independent state of Croatia (NDH).

NDH was still under German and Italian defacto control, but it had a high degree of autonomy, it had its own government, police, military and…concentration camps, more than 20 of them, ruled by their military and police, the most known of these were Jasenovac (Yasenovats), Jadovno, Stara Gradiska,… The number of victims of those camps is controversial even today, but it is estimated from around at least 400.000 up to over a million Serbs, Jews and Roma people, there were even 2 camps that were made exclusively for children, Jastrebarsko and Sisak camps. Unlike German camps, here the main “enemy” were Serbs, not Jews and apart from the holocaust itself, NDH authorities also tried to convert a part of Serbs, orthodox christians, into catholicism, both adults and kids.

The official government program of NDH was to murder 1/3 of Serbs, deport 1/3 and (re)baptize the remaining 1/3 , you can read more about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_persecution_of_Serbs

Ante Pavelic was the head of this system, with a title of “poglavnik” or supreme leader. Not sure if you can call him a dictator, since he was a puppet, but nonetheless most of these anti-Serbian actions were his own. After the war finished and communists won in Yugoslavia, the NDH was dissolved and it’s leaders escaped all over the world, among them Ante Pavelic. He managed to escape to Argentina and lived a peaceful life in hiding until the late 50’s when a Serbian agent found him and shot him, he however survived and lived another 2 years, moved to Spain and died there from the wound.

What happened next? He got a gravestone. In the middle of Madrid, in a “up class” San Isidro graveyard (the grave https://unpaseoporlamemoria.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/ante22.jpg )

In comparison, the gravestones of Hitler’s parents were removed, due to neo-nazi’s using them as a pilgrimage site, so how is a evil genocidal nazi that led a state that murdered from 0.4 to 1 million people allowed to have a gravestone, not anywhere, but in the center of one of the main cities of the EU, but Hitler’s parent’s aren’t? I think that even Hitler’s house in Austria was destroyed or planned to be destroyed due to neonazi’s pilgrimaging.

Neo nazi’s use Ante Pavelic’s grave as a pilgrimage site as well, for example the coat of arms you can see on these items on his grave ( https://unpaseoporlamemoria.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/ante1.jpg ) is not the coat of arms of Croatia, but the coat of arms of the NDH, NDH one begins with a white field, followed by red, white, red,etc., while the modern Croatian begins with a red field, followed by white. So the white field one is used as a nazi symbol today.

Why is this person allowed to have a gravestone? Does that mean that it would be ok if Hitler also had one?

I don’t know if I am more disgusted by the fact that he has a gravestone or the fact that most people outside Balkans don’t even know about him, but think that holocaust was only about Hitler and Jews and no one else.

this problem was one of two reasons that bin laden was buried at sea…the other being Islamic burial codes …

erm post should of read this problem was one of two reasons that bin laden was buried at sea they didn’t want the “sons of Osama” having a holy ground for pilgrimage …the other being Islamic burial codes …

Spain and all things WW II can get very YMMV and since a lot of what died under his watch could have been Bolsheviks I would bet that entered into the reasoning. While neutral in a sense they did sort of lean Axis Powers/Germany so I’m not really surprised. As for Hitler himself, I doubt any marker would have stood for very long before someone destroyed it.

I’ve heard of Ante Pavelic, and I encourage as many people as possible to go and piss on it. Which is what I think would happen if Hitler had a grave.

One thing that happens in Europe is that graves are frequently re-used. The municipality (or relevant local church authority) keeps an eye on the graveyard and notes who’s been around for a while. They put up notices after a few decades (I’m guessing around sixty to seventy years) asking family members to contact the church if they’re still visiting or maintaining the grave, and if nobody turns up then it gets re-used for a dearly departed of more recent vintage. (I encountered such notices while hunting down the parents of my great-uncle here in Stockholm; when I finally located their grave site, someone else had taken over the spot and the original marker was long gone.)

I seem to recall reading that the same thing had happened to the grave of Hitler’s sister Paula sometime in the last decade or so. So while it may have been in the interest of the Austrian authorities to speed up recycling the graves of Alois Hitler and Klara Pölzl, it’s likely they would have suffered the same fate sooner or later if Adolf had grown up to be a lepidopterist instead.

There are of course exceptions to the rule, in the case of national renown or if the cemetery is generally old enough or finally declared full. My guess, then, is that barring any extraordinary political development Pavelic will sooner or later end up with a new roomie and his name no longer on the front door because physically he is no longer there.

Follow-up on my previous post (warning: Wikipedia, accuracy not 100% guaranteed) – the plot where Alois and Klara Hitler were buried was a rental, and the holder of the title, a descendant of Alois and his first wife, relinquished it in 2012. So the immediate cause of the grave’s disappearance was not to keep skinheads on pilgrimage from skulking around.

This also raises the question of whether Pavelic or his family bought or rented the plot where he currently lies. That will determine the ultimate fate of Pavelic himself and his grave.