Well, in all of my Christian learnings, I have never heard that question posed. Did we all forget the little hell thing? As far as I know God does not give you the free will to chose eternal life or not. Just where to spend it.
Decide on oblivion? I don’t think we can just make a pronouncement that we’re going to go into oblivion when we die and just have it be so because we wish it. My understanding of the biblical teaching is that we all live forever in either heaven or hell. That’s our choices, I don’t see where oblivion is one of them. We don’t tell God how things are, He tells us.
You’re right that God isn’t going to drag you kicking and screaming into heaven for eternity if you don’t want to go there. Rejecting His provision for salvation in Christ is all you have to do, but it’s not oblivion you’ll get but a conscious eternity in hell without Him.
And I don’t share the beliefs that heaven and hell are right here on earth, etc.
Folks, I can’t find in the Bible that oblivion is an option after death. Just don’t work that way because you desire it to.
And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. Hebrews 9:27
Also remember the rich man and Lazarus? They both died. They were still aware and conscious. Lazarus in a place of comfort and the rich man in a place of torment.
His4Ever, are you genuinely interested in converting people?
Errr… given that particular word Diogenese used “weariness”, I must object. All your tiredness shall end. Your labors shall have ceased. In other words, you ain’t gonna be tired a bit.
saen, H4E, The Bible doesn’t actually say that bad people go to Hell, you know. That’s a common misconception, but it’s not in the Bible. The Biblical choice is eternal life or nothing.
But let’ pretend it’s a real dichotomy.
Let’s also pretend that a person is worthy in every way to go to Heaven. (let’s also pretend that he’s accepted Christ as his saviour, if that’s so damned, all-fired important to you) You’re telling me that God is such a giant asshole that he won’t release that person to oblivion if that’s what he wishes? To me, any form of eternal life is Hell, and you’re saying that there is no way for me to avoid Hell, no matter how good a person I am. How is that a god that deserves any love or fealty whatsoever?
Oh yes it does. And I think you know what my response will be if you use the bible to prove your point.
Are you claiming the metauniverse revolves aorund you?
I would say as a purely WAG that heaven will be what we desire or picture it to be. If that’s oblivion for Diogenes, then congratulations, you’ve got it. I know that for myself, assuming I’m fortunate enough to get there, a lot of it’s going to be getting answers to the Great Cosmic Questions I’ve asked throughout my life, plus a few answers to questions I hadn’t even thought of yet. Just picture a Great Debate with the Creator of All Things Himself! 
I do mean debate, by the way, since I suspect my habit of saying "but . . . " and “why?” is an essential part of my soul. This of course leaves room for a curious paradox in which a soul is admitted to heaven but finds it to be hell because of its conception of what heaven and hell are.
Then again, this is only slightly more relevant to everyday life than “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?”
Respectfully,
CJ
Man, If i’m going to hell, I wanna be snuffed out…
You’d better believe it!
[sub]In all seriousness, I do believe each one of us percieves reality differently. Therefore, it can be said that each one of us creates our own individual “metauniverse”.[/sub]
What? Bad people going to hell isn’t in the bible? Have you ever read the bible? or heard anyone who has talk about hell?
Just a few out of the KJV
Ps 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Pr 23:14 - Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell
Isa 5:14 - Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
Isa 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Eze 31:16 - I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
Eze 31:17 - They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen
Mt 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mt 5:29 - 30 if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mt 23:33 - Yeserpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Ok, so lets pretend then shall we? :rolleyes:
Perhaps in your infinite wisdom you have forgotten what eternity or oblivion is? Perhaps you have no clue what you talk aboutwhen you think you percieve eternity anywhere hell. Perhaps he does know. So lets pretend that the Christians believe that God loves you and wants what is best for you. And therefore him knowing all knows that all things would rejoice in his light for eternity. Then again maybe He’s the ref and dems da rules. You have free will to hate Him for isomething you know nothing about. You,however, do not have the free will not to play the game 
That last post by Javamaven1 was from me by the way. I’ll get the hang of this one day. :rolleyes: on myself.
>> an eternal life… doing what?" Basking in the Light of the Lord"? This sounds terribly, terribly boring.
Well, you also have to play the harp most of the time, which means harp lessons until you can play the harp heavenly enough.
saen, You should know better than to trust the KJV. None of those words you referenced actually translate as “hell.” The OT references are to “Sheol” which was a generic abode of the dead akin to Hades. It was used metaphorically to refer to death.
The quotes from Matthew do not say “hell” but “Gehennon” which was a valley southeast of Jerusalem. It was used as a garbage dump and fires tended to burn perpetually in the valley. It was also said to have been a site of human sacrifice by the ancient Caananites. It was an extremely unpleasant place, and Jesus was, again, using it metaphorically to express the desolation of a life (or death) without God.
You have to understand that the ancient Hebrews didn not have a concept of “Hell” the way Christians think of it now (as a place of eternal torment). The Jews believed that there would be a day when all of the dead would be resurrected and have eternal life on Earth. It was also believed that if a body was burned after death, that that person would not be able to be resurrected. So the casting of a body into a fire was seen as horrific because it consigned a person to eternal death (oblivion).
The idea of a Heaven/Hell dichotomy was a product of later Christian legend and was not, in fact, a part of early Christianity
It turns out you also have to say"holy! holy! holy!" in the presence of God for eternity as well. I don’t know if I’d want to do that.
Wasn’t the concept of heaven/hell and ultimate good vs ultimate evil taken originally from the Zoroastrians? (I’m not entirely sure about this one, but I’ll try to find more cites online)
Being a good person does not make you worthy to enter into heaven. Actually, no one is worthy to be with God.
This is why we need to repent to be forgiven of our sins.
No one can enter into the Kingdom of God except through Jesus. Unless you believe and follow Jesus, you will die in your sins.
It’s like this: when you are hungry, you can either eat and live or starve and die. Some people may want to be stubborn and not eat because someone tells them they have to or they will die. “Hhh, I’ll show them!”, and then they are dead.
God knows better than anyone, including yourself, what you need. He will provide it for you if it is His will.
It’s hard for us to comprehend what Heaven is going to be like.
I have thought to myself that we will run out of things to do in heaven. The fact of the matter is that we canNOT use our logic.
For goodness sake, He is the creator of the universe. He can do things that we can’t even imagine; create a new color, perhaps. (minor, but something)
I don’t care if you are a mathematician, phycist, MD, or whatever, you will never compare to God. Neither will you’re logic. There are sooooo many smart people on this board!!! Don’t let it make you feel so superior that you will risk your soul to damnation because “I am so smart”.
Luke 16:23-24— And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. {24} And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Psa 9:17— The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Mat 5:22— But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 10:28— And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 23:15— Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:33— Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
HELL:
Mark 9:48-49— Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. {49} For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
Luke 12:5— But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Yes. Hell is a place.
Hell is hell in mistranslations of the Bible. If you actually translated the Hebrew Bible, “Hell” is really the word Death…
Also, if you knew the slightest bit about the influences of literature on religion, namely christianity, you would realize that the Divine Comedy by Dante, gave us our image of “hell” or more accurately “death.” There is no such place as hell, as depicted in either the Bible or the Divine Comedy.
Notice how for Jews, “Hell” is being far away from God, while Hell is something tangible for Christians. Hmm…
Needless to say that I disagree entirely with your worldview, Jersey.
O, your right. I would rather trust a more pc version that changes scripture and text so it won’t offend our flowery sensabilities.:rolleyes:
You specifically referenced the Christian wordage on eternity and heaven. Christianity, as I have always known it, states just what I said. I did not read where you referenced what Jews or your so called early Christians thaught of it. You ask any fundamental Christian today and they will tell you you either go to heaven or hell when you die. And whether you disagree with it or think it a false dichotomy, that doesnt change that it is a dichotomy taught by Christians. Hell can be metaphoracal. It can be a pit of burning death where satan sits on his throne and thinks of nasty things to do to you for eternity. But hell is where you go. And it is eternal.