A “rounder” was a person who spent money as if there were no tomorrow. Apparently for the first of your examples, this thinking turned out to be true. Judging from the second use, a “rounder” would go through his money and yours too.
I’m familiar with it in the sense of a con man, often one who specialises in shady business deals. I’ve heard it used in this sense by Crowns, cops, and bankruptcy lawyers.
Interesting, I’ve heard it mostly with respect to gamibling, but in a way that’s consistent with what Zoe described: a guy who burns through his money like crazy while being way over his head.
It still fits with the way you understand the word, because such a guy would be jumping at every get-rich-quick scheme there was to be had.
ETA: Granted, I also used to hear the term primarilty from a 76-year-old man from London, England, and there’s no guarantee he was using the term in the right context or that I was totally understanding what he meant.
The earliest cites I could find revolve around making the rounds at bars and saloons. Cites are from 1888 and 1900. The latter reference suggests that rounders made the rounds of the happening places - to rub elbows with celebrities and the rich. Partrdige did not have it listed which suggests that it is solely an American expression.
I also found a reference to a rounder as a methodist minister who made the rounds on a religious circuit. There is a long history of jokes about the traveling ministers in the south involving either sexual escapades with the congregations or showing up at homes just as dinner is being served.
By extension a rounder could refer to anyone who makes rounds - of bars, women’s houses (presumably when the husband is not at home), patients, etc.
The 1998 movie “Rounders” (about poker) has probably set the meaning to card players and poker, which is certainly not what the earliest references are.
Old Crow Medicine Show, “Tell It to Me”
"Now won’t you tell it to me
Tell it to me
Drink the corn liquor let the cocaine be
Cocaine’s gonna kill my honey dead
All them rounders think they’re tough
But they feed their women on beer and snuff
Cocaine’s gonna kill my honey dead"
I’ve been wondering about “rounders” since I heard the song, but never really looked into it.
I’m not sure I’d agree with that. The sense I’m familiar with, it’s used for the guy who sets up the get-rich-quick schemes, in hopes of attracting the suckers.
They way I’ve heard it used is in the sense of a wild-life loving party guy. Skirt chasers, pool hall frequenters, gamblers, moonshiners - etc. Also used interchangeably with “dirt road sport”. Of course, we’re a bit down the road from Appalachia so the meaning may have morphed somewhat. I’ve no idea about the etymology.
The origins of the song Stagger Lee (also known as Stag 'o lee and other variants) predates the Dead and its origin is disputed. Wiki article. I first heard of it in a little book of guitar songs my daddy had called “Hootenany Tonight”.
No, that’s another old, old song which has been covered by everybody and his brother. The lyrical structure is similar because they come out of the same tradition. No two versions with quite the same verses, and lines from some of these songs might well get interchanged, depending on who’s doing them.
The term “Rounder” can mean different things depending on the context of its use. In Bluegrass/Appalachian songs it can refer to a “vagabond”…someone who’s been “around.” To understand the notion of the hobo in the time frame of the songs, several of the other definitions also apply. For example, rounders were fond of drink, might play cards to make money off a pigeon player, and would usually spread their wealth as if it was pennies from heaven. Hobos lived for the day and took care of one another when times were good. Whether these attributes were later associated with card sharks, male bar-flies, or con artists is difficult to say…but the hobo referred to in many songs is called a “rounder.” This is also the context of “rounder” in the Wabash Cannonball, where they say, “So here’s to daddy Claxton, may his name forever be, and always be remembered in the courts of Tennessee, for he is a good old rounder 'til the curtain round him fall, and we’ll carry him home to Dixie on the Wabash Cannonball.” This was a song of a train that did not exist, but epitomized the greatest train of legend. You can see in this context that the hobos thought of Claxton as a “good old rounder.” They would have claimed him so because he was associated with the classic traits of a hobos, including run-ins with the law.
(Note that “Cocaine Blues,” and chart hits thereof, preceded Johnny Cash by a good bit.)
The song opens “Early one morning, while making my rounds.” A couple lines later he heads home to bed, indicating the time referred to would be the wee hours. This is consistent with one who makes the rounds of nightclubs, bars, and other late night joints.