What Is God Like?

JDeMobray said:

I was going to say something about that, and if it had been just about anybody else, I’d have figured it was meant to be that way. But…

Scylla said:

While this is apparently very difficult for you to believe, no, I don’t.

The Easter Bunny, as you say, is a specific “thing” that pretty much everybody agrees on. Same with Santa Claus. But considering that even theists can’t agree on God – why else would we have this thread? – how can you expect nonbelievers to come up with something that we don’t believe in? Is this really so difficult to understand?

Senile when not sadistic, sadistic when not senile.
Or perhaps just impotent.

I used to be an atheist. Now I just don’t care.

Polycarp,

you come across as a reasonable, pleasant Christian (unfortunately I have also met a few Christians who were the opposite).

You said ‘God is loving, all powerful and ever near, but respectful of human autonomy and unwilling without invitation to “invade” human hearts and minds.’

Well (as I posted on another thread), I attended church (Congregational) until I was 14. I have studied the Bible, particularly the Gospels. My Sunday School teacher was a decent man and I respected his opinions. He told me that belief in God was a matter of personal faith.
My parents brought me up to be a respectable, honest citizen, and I think Jesus gave us some excellent ways to behave.
But I haven’t had any revelation from God. OK, I don’t believe I will burn in Hell forever, but why doesn’t God reveal Himself to me?.

You posted ‘He is quite obvious when “seen” with the eyes of faith’.

This ties in with the above. Do I need to believe despite the complete lack of physical evidence?

Further ‘Who He is, is most obvious to non-believers in the character of Jesus as depicted in the four Gospels. Whoever has known Jesus through reading them with an eye to seeing what he was like, has known God. And his spirit is ready to help guide that encounter.’

Well, as I said, I admire the teachings of Jesus. But how much of the Old Testament applies? That seems a different God to me.

I’m not trying to have a go at you - I would appreciate guidance here. I have had a happy successful life so far using a scientific approach (with healthy skepticism on top). Why should I change my approach, especially when Christians can’t even agree on how to describe God?

I agree with UncleBeer. Whichever one you’re putting up, that’s the one I don’t believe in.

I understand and admit the philosophical stance of the atheists who have posted that they don’t believe in any god. And I’m not trying to play a game with their posts.

But I suspect that the first time you saw a post from FriendofGod, you had an idea what God he was Friend of. And the term “God” with capital G as bandied about by people evokes some sort of imagery to you, presumably not including the characteristics of invisible, pink, and quadrupedal. That’s what I was looking for from you, if you care to respond to the question again with that in mind.

I admit I was not expecting any of the answers I got, including the tongue-in-cheek ones. (The vision of God from the William Blake sketches in a country kitchen wearing an apron and a fishing cap and whipping up a batch of toll house cookies is delightfully incongruous!)

Glee, the situation you describe is in SDMB jargon a Glitch (after the poster to have first described having gone through the same thing, and having only his name in common with the computer jargon term). My answer is pretty unsatisfactory, I fully admit. It would be that he does what he does in his own good time and not when we expect him to produce. (One of the prerogatives of being omnipotent, I suppose.)

I think I can speak with authority that if you are open to him and he doesn’t respond, I can guarantee that you are not going to Hell. (I despise the Santa Claus Heaven/Hell mythology that substitutes for Christian theology in popular thought, by the way. The God I worship is a god of love who may be subtle but is not malicious, to quote Al. He paces his efforts vis-a-vis you to your spiritual growth, and may not be evident to your mind and heart when you might want him to be.

The “lack of evidence” thing has always bothered me. As David B. will attest, most historical events can be doubted with the proper skeptical apparatus. And the claims for God, particularly as revolves around Jesus, are so extraordinary that a higher degree of proof becomes needed. I believe that, stripped of myth, there is a valid story line running through the Bible about a real God who is truly interested in reaching people. I think the proof is there; you just have to weed out the improbable and go with what is left – IMHO, quite a lot. And remember that the earliest Christian formula about God is, when you see Jesus, you see God. The Jesus of Scripture, whatever his historicity, is an unmistakeable real character. You can guess with some degree of surety how he would react to a given non-Scriptural incident.

The O.T.? Remember there was a bunch of authors of papyrus scrolls bound together into one volume. Some of them were off in left field, some focused on one point and others on a different one. Contemplate the differences between comments by the Pope, John Shelby Spong, Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, and Martin Marty on any given issue. Same thing, with historical spread as well – you’d throw St. Augustine and Martin Luther into the mix. It points to the God of Jesus, more or less, but by gradually focusing in from a pretty nebulous concept of YHWH our tribal deity, who can take on anybody else’s God with both hands tied behind his back, through the mysterious guy of Job, the grieving husband of Israel-personified-as-a-slut in Hosea, down to the Suffering Servant of later Isaiah. Dredging out a piece of insufferable judgmentalism in Leviticus or some of those genocidal incidents in Numbers and Joshua and judging the whole OT by them makes as much sense as judging Western Civilization by Auschwitz and the Battle of Hastings.

Polycarp,

you posted ‘the term “God” with capital G evokes some sort of imagery to you …That’s what I was looking for from you, if you care to respond to the question again with that in mind.’

OK, from my Sunday School book, I have an image of an old man with a long white beard sitting on a cloud.
But surely that’s no more use than my instinctive image of a rabbit - it’s black because I had a childhood pet that was.

You answered my query about God not revealing himself to me with ‘My answer is pretty unsatisfactory, I fully admit. It would be that he does what he does in his own good time and not when we expect him to produce. (One of the prerogatives of being omnipotent, I suppose.)’
Well, if he’s omnipotent, then He knows I want a revelation. Nothing so far…

You posted ‘I think I can speak with authority that if you are open to him and he doesn’t respond, I can guarantee that you are not going to Hell.’

You remind me of my Sunday School teacher. A reasonable, polite man. But where does your authority (and useful guarantee!) come from? Has God mentioned me?
(I’m not trying to be sarcastic. I respect your beliefs, especially Jesus’ social teachings. But I wouldn’t accept it if you told me about e.g. cold fusion without proof, so how can I believe in God, just because you say He exists?)

Further ‘The “lack of evidence” thing has always bothered me. … And the claims for God, particularly as revolves around Jesus, are so extraordinary that a higher degree of proof becomes needed. I believe that, stripped of myth, there is a valid story line running through the Bible about a real God who is truly interested in reaching people. I think the proof is there; you just have to weed out the improbable and go with what is left – IMHO, quite a lot.’

Sorry - but what proof? The storyline is NOT consistent between the Old and New testaments. The Gospels were written between 30 -100 years after the events they describe. We don’t even know where His tomb was, let alone have proof he rose from it.

The Catholic Church regularly claims there have been Saints who have performed miracles. They offer no proof, of course.
Some TV evangelist claimed God would kill him if we didn’t send money.
Do you believe either of these ‘proofs’ of God?

Your point here is exactly right, and I think that’s what the other non-believers were getting at by saying that we don’t believe from other’s frame of reference.

When FriendofGod posts about God, I see his God. The Big Bearded Baby-killer, preparing for His Wrathful Judgement on an Unworthy People. And that’s the one I don’t believe in for purposes of a discussion with him.

OTOH, when you post, I see a different God, one who may not have any corporeal form that we understand but who exists just as plainly as you or I, and who enters men’s hearts and fills them with love and who sent His Son down to teach humans about love and all that. And that’s the one I don’t believe exists for purposes of a discussion with you.

The same would hold true of Islamic posters, Zeusians, etc. Similarly, when a Buddhist posts, he doesn’t have a “God” at all. In that case, we’re simply reduced to not believing in reincarnation.

Hope this helps.

Poly said:

While obviously (see Manny’s post, above) some of us do have some “figure” in mind in such situations, I just don’t. I may compare the deity under discussion to others (such as when I compared FoGgy’s god to Milosovec), but that doesn’t mean I literally “see” Milosovec in my mind’s eye. I don’t “see” anything. I simply don’t believe, and so there is nothing to see.

I’m sorry if this bugs you guys, but that’s just the way it is. < shrug >

It seems that the “God-botherers” have a difficulty in understanding that athiests don’t need a particular God to disbelieve in.

Does this help

Question to people who can’t swim.
“What temperature of water can’t you swim in?”

I’m Agnostic but the biblical form of “God” is rather undescribed as such that everyone that has scene him/her(not entirely shure from lack of description) is dead or has died and not come back to tell us theirfor “God” has been left to the whims of the imagonation to describe and scince were human, we think of (normaly) a devine human with a briliant light surrounding and unhuman abilities that would greatly benefit mankind. I may be wrong so please be kind enough to tell me what I’m wrong about at orogami@citynet.net.

P.S. I’m not saying there is no god, but rather he/she has been placed upon human error to create and exist.

not sure if you’ll actually see this…but…this is a message board, not a list serv or email list…you have to come here to participate and get feedback…and work on the spelling/grammar just a bit :wink:

Omnipotence? No.
Omniscience? Limited (read Whitehead).
Omnipresent? Yes.
Personal? No.
Judgmental? No.
Deterministic? No.
Dictatorial? No.
Loving? Yes.
Ineffible? Yes.
Transcendant? Yes.

Real? No.

Palm Cove said:

I like it!

(Somebody will probably object that, after it goes below freezing, you don’t have to worry about swimming in it, 'cus you can walk on it instead. :wink: )