And do you think he’ll ever get in, AND do you think his son’s current biographic This Old Cub will earn Santo more votes for the HoF in the future? Santo had his number retired by the Chicago Cubs last year and said that he found that to be more touching and fulfilling than the hall of fame, and yet, he was on the '69 Cubs AND a Nine Time Allstar player, including a Home Run leader in 1965. You can find his career stats here.
Mr. jar contends that if he hasn’t gotten in yet, he ain’t getting in, because it’s not like his record can IMPROVE over time.
Well, he’s in the hands of the Veterans Committee now, so he may have a shot. Of course, they changed the rules a couple years ago to make it harder for old timers to get voted in. When the Committee last met in 2003, he was in 3rd place in votes (behind Gil Hodges and Tony Olivia), but no canidate got enough votes to make the Hall. They’ll meet again in 2005, but he’d need to gain a lot of support since the last vote, and I don’t really see that happening.
His last year in baseball was '74, and I was born in '75, so I’m not too familar with him. But from browsing his page at baseball reference, he seems a pretty borderline canidate to me, just based upon his offensive stats. His black ink score is fairly low. Of course, he did play a defensive position, and he retired relatively young (at 34), and I think the voters should take that into account when looking at his career totals, but I have the feeling it won’t be enough.
I grew up in the Chicago suburbs in the 60’s and 70’s and I’ve been a Cub fan forever. While, I have great memories of Wrigley Field in the 70’s, and was present at Ron Santo Day one Saturday afternoon against the St. Louis Cardinals, I dont remember Ron Santo being a Hall of Fame quality player.
He has made a permanent mark in the history book of Cub memories, but I remember him as a selfish primadonna, publicly ridiculing teammates for poor play and running down the third base line amateurishly kicking up his heels after every Cub win during that magical '69 season.
He is made a tragic figure by his horrific health problems and i shudder at the thought of that perhaps ever happening to me, but he does not belong in baseball’s Hall of Fame.
I’m too young to remember most of Santo’s career so all I have to evaulate him are his lifetime stats and what various sports writers and other ballplayers had to say about him.
Santo’s main problems are he’s a third baseman and he spent most of his career for the Chicago Cubs. With regards to the first, I remember that Bill James wrote that HOF voters are still not sure on exactly what’s more important in evaluating a third baseman: exceptional offense or exceptional defense? That’s why there are fewer third basemen represented in the HOF than any other position. It’s true that recent selections like Mike Schmidt and George Brett excelled in both categories but their offensive numbers were their ticket in.
But what about Brooks Robinson? While he was a dangerous hitter, his offensive stats (which weren’t as good as Santo’s) wouldn’t have guaranteed a spot in Cooperstown. Well, that were Santo’s second problem comes in: the Chicago Cubs factor. Brooks Robinson’s Baltimore Orioles won two world championships, four AL pennants, and five division titles between 1966 and 1974. He was also named MVP for the 1970 World Series for his play. Santo, on the other hand, played for the Chicago Cubs, a team that–with the exception of a few years in the late 60’s and early 70’s–was either mediocre or downright crappy. The closest opportunity Santo ever got to shine in post-season was in 1969 when his team infamously melted down during the stretch. In fact, it’s worth noting that there are already three other Cubs from that era in the HOF: Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, and Fergie Jenkins. If Santo’s elected, there will be four and, to many baseball pundits, that’s too many for a team that never got to post-season.
There are some other factors weighing against Santo like the fact he retired too early and couldn’t build up his lifetime stats to the point that they couldn’t be ignored by HOF voters. Finally, Santo got the reputation (perhaps unfairly) for being unable to deliver in the clutch. He’d hit a home run with his team already up by five runs or behind by ten but not when the game was on the line. (Perhaps some Chicago dopers who followed the Cubs and Santo during his career can refute this.)
Anyway, if it was up to me, I would’ve put him in a long time ago (as would Bill James). However, I am not a voter (nor is James) so all I can offer is a possible explanation for why Santo’s not there.
I don’t know if he belongs or not, but I can name a few reasons he won’t get in:
No magic number stats. Career line of .277/.362/.464. Hit above .300 four times in 15 years. Didn’t reach even 350 HR, didn’t reach even 2,500 hits, etc.
Position. Nobody knows what to do with the hot corner. Unless you are routinely considered one of the best players overall (not just one of the best 3B of the era) then you probably aren’t going to make it.
Team.
Lack of championships.
Lack of major awards like MVPs, batting titles, etc. He has some Gold Gloves, which is nice, but Gold Gloves alone don’t get you into the Hall of Fame (see: Omar Vizquel). You have to be considered a really, really, really special defender like Ozzie, Brooks, and a few others.
For comparison’s sake, here are Brooks Robinson’s stats. In terms of offense, Santo has more home runs and a higher batting average than Robinson. However, Robinson has more hits and RBI (mainly because he played longer).
I Like Nuerotek’s #4
No Playoffs or Championships for the Cubbies…
Santo was a great Player!
So was Rocky Colavito
So was Roy Sievers
But they all played for Losing Teams
Gil Hodges must be turning in his grave! He was on winning Teams
I saw all of them, Santo in the National,Robinson in the American,both excellent
3rd Basemen,both Gamers!