I was reading the “Ask before petting my dog” thread and someone mentioned that a dog laying itself over another dog is a very aggressive act. This got me thinking, because my dog ( a medium sized shepherd mix) will sometimes lay over me if I am sleeping and she wants me to get up. For instance, this morning I hit snooze a few times and I could hear her scratching at the door, but I was lazy about getting up right away. She came in and laid down across my stomach. It doesn’t bother me too much, she just lays there quietly but now I am wondering if this is a sign of dominance on her part that I should not allow. She clearly does it when she wants me to get up, and she will do it to my husband too.
She is not an overly aggressive or dominant dog otherwise. She is very tolerant of children tackling her or handling her, poking at her, etc. She lets me pick her up, handle her paws and take her food away with no trouble. She also does not seem to mind when I use her as a pillow in return, or have children hug her or lay on her. Likewise with other dogs, but she will sometimes take a ‘leader’ role when playing with them - she is not always submissive either.
Is it a big deal - yea or nay?
I thought this might belong in IMHO but I’d also like to hear others’ stories about how their pets tell them things even if they don’t have any advice, so I put it here. I think it’s interesting how animals respond to body language.
My dog used to do the same, and I think there was a dominance issue involved, as we had dominance issues from day one (he was a very dominant and very alpha puppy with his littermates, and he did not like relinquishing that power when he joined my pack) I would move him and lay on top of him for a few minutes or simply push him away and wait to get up at my leisure. Now he gives a lick or sometimes a low grumble to wake me. Otherwise he just sits and waits.
Sometimes larger dogs do exhibit some dominant traits but if they aren’t being agressive to you, then it could just mean he thinks of you as “belonging” to him. Something to be protected against another predator and not necessarily an advosary. An alpha wolf is in charge of protecting the pack as much as he is commanding it. It is probably more of a loyalty thing.
My dog stands on my feet. When he is next to me, he stands ON my foot and not beside it. If I move my foot, he moves right on top of me and is more likely to behave that way if there is someone else around me.
My dog used to do the same, and I think there was a dominance issue involved, as we had dominance issues from day one (he was a very dominant and very alpha puppy with his littermates, and he did not like relinquishing that power when he joined my pack) I would move him and lay on top of him for a few minutes or simply push him away and wait to get up at my leisure. Now he gives a lick or sometimes a low grumble to wake me. Otherwise he just sits and waits.
Velma, as with so many things in life, it’s all about context.
Dogs will use “mounting” (and no, not just in a sexual sense) to show aggression or “alpha-ness”.
However, if you have no aggression problems with your dog, I’d say it sounds much more like “litter-mate” behavior.
Our dog does this too - it’s something they do as puppies in the litter. They sleep all over each other in a big puppy pile. Sounds to me like your dog has accepted you as part of her “pack” and it’s therefore OK to use you as a Body Pillow. Aggressive behavior, or a bid for the “alpha” spot, would escalate if you didn’t respond to just this. If you haven’t seen any escalation, then it’s just “littering” (so to speak). Your dog is comfortable with you and is showing you thatt. However, if your dog starts growling at you to get up, or trying other ways to dominate you, refusing to listen to you, etc., then it’s time to put the brakes on as she’s making a bid for Alpha.
Disclaimer: I am not a dog trainer nor do I play one on TV, however, I have been owned by several dogs. Our latest one, in fact, also lays all over us now that we have gotten rid of his fear-aggression.
so yes, I have seen both sides of that type of behavior.
As long as there’s nothing more serious like food guarding, refusing commands, or generaly pushy behavior, it’s probably not a big deal as far as being a dominance problem. Not all behavior that is typically described as a dominant trait always is - you need to look at the whole spectrum of behavior.
You said it doesn’t bother you “too much.” Everyone’s household is different and you have to rate what’s important behavior to train and what isn’t. Does this bug you enough to train out. I know it would bug me, because I value my sleep. No dogs on the bed uninvited. But those are my rules, and your rules are different.
Maybe your dog just really has to go outside, and is trying to let you know? As my dog is getting older, I notice that she has to go out more often and she lets me know vocally, (owwwwrrr…) but if I don’t respond to that she will prod me with her face and do a little ‘gotta go out’ prance. She’s about 11, a lab.
Thanks everyone for the good insight. mipiace, I’ve never heard of a dog standing on your feet before! Mine is underfoot a lot but I think that’s because she likes to herd. She does it to other dogs too.
kfwilkinson, I assumed basically what you suggested, that she is just being ‘litter mates’ with me until someone brought it up as a possible sign of dominance. Now I’m not sure. If I don’t respond, she sometimes will nudge me. She doesn’t growl, but she makes that throaty sound that dogs can do - you know what I’m talking about? It sounds like the dog is ‘talking’ way back in their throats, rowwrrrowwrr. It’s not like growling…hopefully someone knows what I am talking about:). She doesn’t do it to sleep on the bed, only when she wants us up. She does like to sleep propped up on things - her head in my lap, or on a pillow or my leg. This is different, she lays her whole body across mine.
porcupine, she doesn’t seem aggressive to me, but she does have fits of refusing commands lately, especially ‘come.’ Other times she will obey but gives an attitude about it. I know dogs don’t have ‘attitudes’ but she will sigh, or do the command half-assed if she doesn’t want to do it, or pause before complying. Sometimes she will accompany this with a little more throaty complaining, or an irritated ‘arf.’ I swear the little bitch would roll her eyes at me sometimes if she could! Other times she is perfectly well behaved and seems to enjoy pleasing us by obeying.
I am going over her training and even basic commands again more often now to try to break her of this, that’s why I am wondering if she is showing dominance more than I think.
I don’t know if this is relevant but she just turned one in March, and she obeys me better than my husband. I don’t know if part of it is due to her age?
should have previewed…DeVena, that is exactly where she lays! And it works, too:).
heh. NETexan, I ask her that all the time when she is clearly trying to get me to come outside. “What is it, girl? Is Timmy in the well?” It makes her crazy.
My dog Buck does this when he is ready to go out but is much too polite to wake me up. Instead he will either lie with his head on my belly–like he’s trying to make sure I don’t sneak out of bed without him or he will just stand there and stare at my face. I can feel it. As soon as I open one eye, that’s it. He gets excited and barks to be let out.
Our dogs usually go to bed in their own little corner but one or both may end up in the bed at some point during the night. This happens more in the winter when it is cold. When it’s hot they sleep with thier faces close to the registers on the floor.
Just a note that you really don’t want your dog to think of you like a littermate. You’re should be the alpha, not a littermate. Even when you’re playing with your dog, it should always be clear that you are the alpha. I roughhouse with my dog plenty, and get him pretty riled up (he get very vocal and people who don’t know dogs would think he is being aggressive - he gets “growly” and barky, but it’s different from his warning growl/bark that he uses to warn me of strangers around the property), but I can generally put a stop to it at a moments notice, and it he accidentally puts tooth on me, or if I put my face right next to his, he calms down immediately. I don’t really know how he learned this last thing - it’s not something I taught him, it’s just something he knows. I did teach him the bite inhibition, though.
Is this the same dog that drank some of the Evil from Inside the Cooler? If so, I think you need to get a young priest, and an old priest…
Ahem
I guess it’s not really related, but our dog always wakes my wife up to go out. Always. Even if we switch sides of the bed, or if we’re in a strange place, it doesn’t matter. She just sits by the bed and stares at Mrs. carrot until she wakes up. It’s kinda weird.
For the record, it is the same dog but she did this before she drank the Evil, so it’s not due to that.
porcupine, how did you teach your dog bite inhibition? Rory (the dog) is quite mouthy with us still despite various methods, like bitter apple and yelping at her when she was a puppy. She is gentler but I would like her not to do it at all. It’s funny - some commands she always responds to really well and some she doesn’t seem to get. This doesn’t seem to correlate with amount of time spent on learning the commands, either.
She will always obey ‘go to your kennel’ and ‘go get a toy’. Both useful but I wonder why those and not others…we try to be very consistent with our training methods.
Not trying to hijack my own thread…I still like to hear about other ways pets tell their owners things!
I see.
The way we taught our dog not to mouth was (and we got this out of a puppy training book) when she did, we would grab her lower jaw with our thumb (just over the front lower teeth). Not hard enough to hurt her, or even cause discomfort, but she really hated when we did it. After letting go (I think the longest anyone ever did it was maybe 5 seconds), we then had her lick our hands, and then praised her and all that good stuff. It took a couple of weeks, but she’s been really good. She doesn’t bite anything anymore, including when our niece and nephew get the bright idea to attempt to wrestle the dog.
Have you ever seen a six year old put a dog in a full nelson?
No, but a 3 year old took a flying leap across the room and took her down, once! I’ve also seen a child take her leash and try to spin her around him by turning in circles. Both times she just took it and looked at me like, WTH? A little help, please?
I have never seen her mouth a child. I do grab her lower jaw sometimes when she does it to me and it irritates her, but she will come back for more a few times and then only stop for a while.
Velma, luckily I was able to do this when Gizmo was a puppy, so I don’t know if this would work with you now. In addition to doing the making a big “Yelp” when he did lay tooth on me as a little puppy, the other thing I would do when he was a bit older be to hold my lower forearm in his mouth every so often, and just hold it there until he started squirming to get away. I started doing this when we were roughhousing - he likes to pull on my sleeves (which was ok with me), and it took him a while to distinguish between sleeve and arm (arm obviously not ok). So sometimes instead of the “Yelp”, I’d stop the game when he’d go for my arm, and just hold my arm in his mouth til he squirmed. So he learned arm-in-mouth=discomfort and also the fun stopped. Between the two techniques, he generalized it pretty well to tooth-to-skin=bad. Even now, I’ll sneak my arm in there every so often when he yawns, so see how he reacts. He hates it. He absolutely does not want tooth on skin.
Obviously if he were ever biting out of dominance I wouldn’t have done this - it wouldn’t have been safe. He was a puppy and he didn’t know any better.
It’s odd, though. I think if someone were really threatening me, he’d go after them. I live alone, and a couple of people have keys to my condo. I have a dog walker that has been taking care of him ever since was a puppy (he’s now 9). One day when I was home sick, I forgot to cancel the dog walk for the day. When she showed up and let herself in, Gizmo barked at her. He never barks at her when I am not there. Obviously he didn’t go after her, but he wanted to make damn sure that I knew someone was coming into the condo, even if that person was someone he knew very well. When UncleBeer comes over, he also barks when he comes to the door. Gizmo’s also acted aggressively to a couple of people on the street. This is very rare, though - he’s friendly to almost everyone. So if someone tried to come into that condo uninvited when I am there, I think he might get over his bite inhibition.
What kind of dog is your puppers? You mentioned herding. Is the mouthing part of wanting to herd people? Any retriever mixed in? My dog is neither a shepher nor a retriever - he’s a Norwegian Elkhound - and it’s not a particularly mouthy breed. Barky, yes. Mouthy, no.
