The part where it was any kind of threat. And the part where you refuse to back up your assertions with any sort of evidence, outside of other, equally implausible, assertions. We know the unicorns exist, because the leprechauns told us so.
Because he was running a bluff would be my guess. He didn’t have an active nuclear program because it was mostly destroyed after the first gulf war and he didn’t have the chance to reform it due to a bunch of complications. He didn’t have an active Chem/Bio program for much the same reason. It was all he could do to rebuild his CONVENTIONAL military after the first gulf war. Also, I think that first gulf war taught him a valuable lesson…don’t try and go head to head with the US, even if if you have some Chem/Bio weapons tech.
So, I think Saddam was running an elaborate bluff, not for our benefit but for that of his neighbors. At the same time he was attempting to rebuild his conventional military and put resources into his unconventional paramilitary forces. All this would have been fine and he might still be doing it today (and perhaps may even have gotten the sanctions lifted and been able to be out from under the microscope to start rebuilding his Chem/Bio and perhaps even nuclear programs) except for one thing…9/11 changed things in the US and gave Bush et al the window of opportunity to crush him. And he miscalculated thinking things were as they had been and that he could keep running his bluff, that he could keep using the rhetoric, keep the low grade hostility in the no fly zone, etc etc, and that everything would just keep bumping along.
He was wrong and both Iran AND the US have paid for both his stupidity and Bush’s.
None of this has much to do with why Pelosi has taken impeachment off the table though…
-XT
You mean the 1.2 million pounds of yellowcake that we knew about since 1991? The stuff that the IAEA inspected in 2002 and 2003?
There was no hidden WMD program. The CIA says so. The UN weapons inspectors say so. You are wrong. That’s all there is to it.
Really, and you know this how? The program you say was destroyed after the first gulf war was alive and sitting on the back of the truck.
- he repeatedly used WMD’s.
- he had a mobile program in place specificallly to hide WMD production
- he had the material to build 100 nuclear weapons.
- he kicked out the inspectors for 4 years.
If you want to guess that he’s bluffing given his history of activelly using WMD’s and attempting to build a nuclear device that’s fine. What would be your guess after a terrorist orginization gets it’s hands on a nuclear weapon? There are suicidal organizations out there that think America is the great Satan and would love to destroy us. What is your guess on how much they care if you’re a Democrat?
Yes the 1.2 million lbs of yellowcake that we knew about since 1991 but couldn’t inspect for 4 years under the control of someone who liked to hide WMD programs.
I’ve seen no proof of the validity of this claim as yet. But even if it were so, think about it. A nuclear program (or a chem/bio program for that matter) isn’t going to be developed off the back of a truck. If it were that easy everyone would play. Even if he still had some of the equipment laying about (again, something that hasn’t been substantiated as yet in this thread), that just means he had the means (theoretically) to pursue a program sometime in the future.
Yes he did, though most instances I am aware of his use were pre-GW I, or shortly after GW I. He certainly never attempted to use them against us either in GW I or GW II for that matter.
This claim is unsubstantiated as far as I’m concerned, and frankly I’m skeptical of what kind of serious development or even production of WMD (C, B or N) could be done out of the back of a truck.
:dubious: Had he have had the material to build 1 nuclear weapon he would have built it. Look how much trouble Iran has had building one. It’s more complex an engineering task than you seem to think it is.
Which proves nothing. Where is the evidence he was actively pursuing C,B or N weapons post GW I? I’ve not seen any evidence of serious development or even research. And frankly 4 years wouldn’t be close to enough to develop a nuclear program (and I’m doubtful he could have developed a large scale C/B system in that time either). This leaves aside, again, the fact that I’ve seen no such evidence demonstrating any of this.
If you have such evidence feel free to present it.
The theory fits all the known evidence…at least as far as I am concerned. If you feel there is evidence supporting a counter theory, feel free to provide it.
My best guess would be that they would use it. I think the probability of them getting such a nuke is non-zero, though not remarkably high at this point. If there were going to get one, it would be from one of the old Soviet Republics though (IMHO), not from Iraq or Iran who would be more disposed to keep them for their own use as a shield (and for the prestige of being in the nuclear club).
Certainly there are. That doesn’t mean Saddam would have been likely to give them a nuke to do it with though (in the highly UNLIKELY event Iraq could have actually developed such a weapon, even without all the sanctions and international pressure and focus).
-XT
Until he was disarmed in 1991.
The CIA says he didn’t. You can’t show that he did. The only evidence of this came from a complete liar known as Curveball. Not even Dick Cheney still believes that’s true!
He didn’t have the equipment to make 1 nuclear bomb, because he was disarmed in 1991.
How you fail to acknowledge that the inspectors were let back in in 2002 and 2003, and both at that time and the 5 years that have passed, weapons inspectors have found no evidence whatsoever of an actual WMD program.
It’s not a guess, it’s a fact. The CIA, UN weapons inspectors, and the IAEA all found the same thing: you’re wrong.
The North and South no-fly zones were established in 1992 to stop Hussein from killing Kurds and Shiites which he did following the war.
Saddam had 4 years to reconstitute a nuclear program. His method of mobile production facilities adds to the credibility that he fully intended to make a nuclear weapon. He kept a 1.2 million lb supply of yellowcake. You can’t explain this away with a waive of your hand as meaningless event.
At what point did you decide Saddam suddently found Allah and was turning over a new leaf? He was a lying genocidal dictator sitting on everything he needed to make a nuclear weapon.
You’re arguments are going to mean crap when a nuclear weapon goes off in NY. George Bush only has 6 more months in office but Al Queda and a nuclear Mid-East will still be there. We didn’t find out that Pakistan was giving away nuclear secrets until after it happened but we knew the potential was there and it poses a real threat. This needs to be dealt with now. WW-II didn’t happen because a Democrat or Republican was in office. It happened because a monster got hold of an army capable of killing millions of people. Today that is done with the efficiency of 1 weapon.
Democracy replaces a dictator and the and the fuel for 100 nuclear weapons will now light the homes of Canada. It wasn’t pretty because outside interests used cultural differences to wage a theological war. But it’s working and the region is better for it.
Except for all the dead people. Details, niggling details.
Not my fault the religion of peace has strong opinions on which prohet is the most loving. Sometimes freedom has a price (which is usually always).
Dilute! OK!
You said he repeatedly used WMD. I said that stopped in 1991 when he was disarmed. The No Fly Zones have zero to do with WMD. Get your facts straight.
We knew by January 2003 that he had no nuclear weapons program. The IAEA inspections showed that, and Mohammed el Baradei announced it to the world that there were no major significant issues pertaining to inspections of nuclear facilities.
He had no mobile production facilities. What you’re saying isn’t true. I’m not sure if you’ve been misinformed or you’re making things up.
I’m not the one who decided that Saddam turned over a new leaf. Read the CIA report and it is simply fact that Saddam dropped his WMD program after 1991.
Which has absolutely fucking nothing to do with the fact that Saddam had no nuclear weapons program.
Are you advocating we invade every Muslim country that has access to nuclear physicists?
It’s a shame Neville Chamberlin isn’t around to pat you on the back.
There you go! The telling blow. The irrefutable charge: Nazi Appeaser.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Impeachment requires a 2/3 rds vote of the Senate. I doubt it could be pulled off. In practical terms it might keep Bush and Cheney too busy to carry off their dirty little plans.
It does? I thought it only required a simple majority to begin proceedings. How did the Republican’s get a 2/3rds vote in the Senate for the Clinton impeachment hearings??
-XT
If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If nothing’s on your side, pound on the table.
I’ll take the name calling as an admission that I’ve won this round.
There was enough evidence of WMD’s for Bush to legally threaten force in order to get Saddam to open the borders back to the UN inspectors. Even Blix said so.
I mean, the evil dude used nerve gas on his own people, ferfuckssake. To put it another way- Saddam was on “probation” and we had more than enough for a “search warrant”.
However, once Blix was in there and free to roam around and search to his little blue heart’s content- there was no need or legal justification to invade Iraq.
True, Saddam *did *send a couple of Semis full of *something *off to Syria before Blix got there. Maybe there were some WMD protoypes and plans in there- or maybe just loot from Kuwait, who knows?
However, that makes no difference- Blix found virtually nothing, we had no WMD reason to invade. True, SH was a very evil man, so there’s that. But does that justify an invasion? :dubious:
“Impeachment” has a couple of meanings. In the Constitution it’s meaning is close to “indict”. In the rest of the world it generally means “remove from office”. VS Clinton, they had enough votes in the House to “indict” or “Impeach” but not enough in the Senate to “convict/Remove from office”.
I laid out a history of deceit and destruction by Saddam including a mobile refinement program. He had everything he needed and the time to make it happen. He had a history of using WMD’s against other nations and his own people. You in turn believe that he gave up his pursuit of WMD’s even though he kept 1.2 million lbs of yellowcake. You based that on inspections after a 4 year absence. When you consider it was sure dumb luck that we found the mobile calutrons in the first place I don’t know how you expect someone to find a semi trailer that could be hiding anywhere in the country let alone trust the word of Saddam.
I don’t know what he trucked into Syria. I do know that the Israelis recently bombed what they deemed a Syrian nuclear plant. I hope they destroyed what they were looking for.
You can fling politics all you want be we had the same moral authority to remove Saddam as we did Slobodan Milošević. Kosovo was freed to it’s own political destiny just as Iraq was. The difference was the cost of human lives and that was driven by outside Islamic forces who wanted theological control of the region.