What is Pit-worthy?

[Liberal]

@mhendo

Of course, one issue with The Pit (whether it’s a problem will depend on your personal perspective), is that, while it does engender some excellent debates, those can sometimes have the effect of narrowing down the thread to two or three committed debaters, and leaving everyone else feeling bored or marginalized. The result, then, is that people no longer feel that the thread is fun, and it either dies or just goes on as a relatively small conversation between a few people.

In pointing this out, i’m not pointing fingers at other people. I know for a fact that i’ve been the culprit on more than a few occasions in such threads, debating on and on with one or two others while everyone else abandons the thread. The question, i guess, is whether people feel that this is a bad thing, or whether it’s simply unavoidable in some situations. After all, some GD threads end up the same way.

I think that’s an astute observation. And you’re right that it happens in GD as well as the Pit. It also happens in CS, as when two music theory nerds begin arguing over whether B# and C are the same note for all practical purposes, or when a couple of people monopolize the Big Brother thread. Hell, it probably happens in MPSIMS for all I know.

But it really doesn’t bother me when that happens. It’s like you say: they’ll duke it out until the end, or the thread will eventually just drop out of sight. The only problem occurs when someone happens to open the thread as a kind of Johnny-come-lately, and makes a comment. And then one of the hangers-on will scream, “Don’t hijack the thread. We’re talking about X.”. I’ve made the point before that just because PosterSmith and PosterJones are talking about X, doesn’t mean I can’t talk about Y, so long as Y is pertinent to the OP. So, no problem with the limited participation threads in the Pit. Just don’t exclude people who want to join in late.

[Shodan]

I never understood the prohibition on joke threads. Why not leave them alone? Does every Pitting have to be deadly serious and intended to offend?

My feeling is that you are over-thinking this. It’s like the prohibition on saying “fuck you” as opposed to “your mother won’t swallow”. Does the distinction even matter?

Pit threads should be left alone unless they are stupid. A judgment call, I grant you, but the example of the late Reeder and his patented “single link and a restatement that BUSH SUX” MO should suffice.

Bottom line - the Pit is for creative insults, and debates where you call your opponent a douche nozzle. Yes, we’re gonna get the usual 4-5 threads a week about how much they hate the Republican du jour, or similar bloody-mindedness, but who cares?

The other suggestion is an absolute ban on moving threads from any other forum to the Pit. If it started in any other forum and is moving towards Pit-dom, lock it down.

Too much cross-contamination of the tone of discourse otherwise. If you don’t know enough to start your rant in the Pit, maybe you will learn after the fifth or sixth one is locked.

Regards,
Shodan

[Fenris]

@Shodan

I never understood the prohibition on joke threads. Why not leave them alone? Does every Pitting have to be deadly serious and intended to offend?

Were you talking about actual “joke” threads ("…so the Rabbi said “That was no mohel, that was my knife!” :p) or “funny” threads?

If it’s the latter, I 100% agree. If it’s the former, I do think that MPSIMS is the better option.

The other point I’d like to suggest is that if we truly are getting ‘better’ debates in the Pit than in GD, then perhaps the GD rules need to be reconsidered–we shouldn’t need two debate forums. The Pit (IMO) really shouldn’t be a debate forum–it’s for rants.

By the way: as of about an hour ago 17/25 Pit threads were expressly U.S. Centric-political.

[5que]

@Shodan

I never understood the prohibition on joke threads. Why not leave them alone? Does every Pitting have to be deadly serious and intended to offend?

I agree with Shodan (that has got to be a first) – I really come to the Pit for the laughs, indended or not. Colorful insults, intelligent taunts, and really stupid retorts, regardless of the subject matter. I do like the RO postings and responses. Yeah, I’m shallow. But wide.

I may be thinking way-way-back, but I always though the Pit was where you could curse like crazy, and the other boards were where you had to act a bit as if Mom were listening.

[Max_the_Immortal]

I think the biggest problem is that threads that could go elsewhere, don’t go elsewhere. The Pit shouldn’t just be “angry MPSIMS”, as it sometimes seems to be. Perhaps we should also re-examine what belongs in MPSIMS. Would low-vitriol ranting and venting be out of place there? RO threads certainly seem mundane and pointless of late, and a quick skim of the MPSIMS posting guildlines doesn’t reveal a prohibition against expressing anger there.

The Pit has in some ways become a ghetto in which “negative” threads are created so that the other forums can stay shiny and positive, and I don’t think that it’s really necessary to do that. Pissed off at your landlord/brother/etc.? Go ahead and rant about it in MPSIMS. Wanna talk smack about your least favorite movie star? It’ll fit into Cafe Society. Want to lament the sad state of your life? Don’t “pit” yourself, start a MPSIMS thread. Angry about a thing you saw on the news? MPSIMS again (unless you want to start a debate on the topic).

The Pit should, in my opinion, be reserved for threads that truly cannot be posted in the other forums. Beefs with other posters are the most obvious, and I believe they were the original purpose of the Pit. Bare-knuckle political debates that eschew the decorum of Great Debates would belong here (unless you want to give them their own forum). Vitriol-drenched rants that are genuinely too hot for MPSIMS (such as the previously linked rant by Euthanasiast) would fit here, but they really should elevate profanity to an art form.

[Shodan]

@Fenris

Were you talking about actual “joke” threads ("…so the Rabbi said “That was no mohel, that was my knife!” :p) or “funny” threads?

“Funny”. Although threads about tasteless or offensive humor should be in the Pit.

But that is related to my belief that Pittings ought to be intended and taken only semi-seriously. It is “playing the dozens”, or at least similar. When I point out (for instance) that you were raised and grew strong on the corn kernels your mother picked out of the feces of her customers, it isn’t necessarily that I was one of the customers and witnessed this first hand. (As far as you know.)

It’s just that a lot of what we do here is showing off for each other - how smart we are, how well-read we are, the perfect wisecrack, how astute we are - how large our masculine organs are in general. And that’s amusing, as well as (occasionally) instructive.

Give my best to your mom.

Regards,
Shodan

[aldiboronti]

@Max_the_Immortal

I think the biggest problem is that threads that could go elsewhere, don’t go elsewhere. The Pit shouldn’t just be “angry MPSIMS”, as it sometimes seems to be. Perhaps we should also re-examine what belongs in MPSIMS. Would low-vitriol ranting and venting be out of place there? RO threads certainly seem mundane and pointless of late, and a quick skim of the MPSIMS posting guildlines doesn’t reveal a prohibition against expressing anger there.

The Pit has in some ways become a ghetto in which “negative” threads are created so that the other forums can stay shiny and positive, and I don’t think that it’s really necessary to do that. Pissed off at your landlord/brother/etc.? Go ahead and rant about it in MPSIMS. Wanna talk smack about your least favorite movie star? It’ll fit into Cafe Society. Want to lament the sad state of your life? Don’t “pit” yourself, start a MPSIMS thread. Angry about a thing you saw on the news? MPSIMS again (unless you want to start a debate on the topic).

The Pit should, in my opinion, be reserved for threads that truly cannot be posted in the other forums. Beefs with other posters are the most obvious, and I believe they were the original purpose of the Pit. Bare-knuckle political debates that eschew the decorum of Great Debates would belong here (unless you want to give them their own forum). Vitriol-drenched rants that are genuinely too hot for MPSIMS (such as the previously linked rant by Euthanasiast) would fit here, but they really should elevate profanity to an art form.

This, emphatically.

[Tom_Tildrum]

If political debates can be posted in the Pit rather than GD because some topics just can’t be hashed out without cursing, then why shouldn’t a consistent rule apply to RO and personal whining threads that would otherwise have to go to MPSIMS? Maybe some people can’t write about their high school reunion or Nigerian scams or pigeon eggs without cursing. If I want to start a thread about how I’m tired of these m-therf-cking snakes on this m-therf-cking plane, where do I put it?

[Heffalump_and_Roo]

@Fenris

The other point I’d like to suggest is that if we truly are getting ‘better’ debates in the Pit than in GD, then perhaps the GD rules need to be reconsidered–we shouldn’t need two debate forums. The Pit (IMO) really shouldn’t be a debate forum–it’s for rants.

I disagree. I think that one of the reasons that debates in the Pit can be interesting is that some of the groundwork is already set in GD. If GD threads became a brawl in each thread, they would all quickly become anti-productive. The reason that threads from GD that land up in the Pit can sometimes be so interesting is that they’re generally very contentious and the part that can be productively argued about is largely done.

My vote. I would like to see these things to NOT be posted in the Pit:
-RO
-self-Pittings
-any Pitting where the OP expects sympathy or understanding (those can go in MPSIMS)
-any Pitting where the OP might be really hurt if someone posted an opposing view
-any Pitting where there’s no opposing viewpoint eg. raping people is bad
-any Pitting with no outrage. . . fake outrage counts if it’s convincing. Whining posts can go in MPSIMS. eg., breaking the lead on your pencil doesn’t count as outrage unless you went on a rampage about it. And the rampage was funny. If the rampage was tragic, it goes in MPSIMS.
I’ll also add my thanks to Gfactor for starting this thread.

[Heffalump_and_Roo]

@Tom_Tildrum

If I want to start a thread about how I’m tired of these m-therf-cking snakes on this m-therf-cking plane, where do I put it?

Sorry for the double post. I didn’t see this until after I posted.

As far as I’m aware and Gfactor can correct me if I’m wrong, cursing is allowed in every forum of this message board. It’s insulting or cursing at other members that’s only allowed in the Pit. You could put the thread above in MPSIMS, as far as I know. That seems to be one of the misconceptions that clogs up the Pit with lots of stuff that doesn’t belong in the Pit.

[Fenris]

@Heffalump_and_Roo

-self-Pittings

Oh good lord yes! I forgot those and that’s one of Lynn’s rules that I really did like. Great point.

[Kalypso]

I like that RO is in The Pit.

When I come to The Pit I expect to read things that will provoke a strong reaction in me. Usually this is a strong negative reaction against someone pitting, or against someone being pitted, or being outraged along with someone posting an RO thread.

When I go to MPSIMS, I expect to see puppy pictures, or personal accounts of someone’s experience with something, or perhaps someone posting in need of emotional support. I don’t expect to see threads containing quotes like “Daddy ate my eyes” and I don’t really wish to.

I do really like that RO threads are being marked as such. That way people can read them or pass them over as they like.

[DrDeth]

@Heffalump_and_Roo

As far as I’m aware and Gfactor can correct me if I’m wrong, cursing is allowed in every forum of this message board. It’s insulting or cursing at other members that’s only allowed in the Pit. You could put the thread above in MPSIMS, as far as I know. That seems to be one of the misconceptions that clogs up the Pit with lots of stuff that doesn’t belong in the Pit.

It has been requested - but is NOT a rule- that profanity be kept out of thread titles.

In ATMB, the staff said that gratuitous profanity should be only in the pIT.

[Heffalump_and_Roo]

@DrDeth

In ATMB, the staff said that gratuitous profanity should be only in the pIT.

Thanks for the correction. But can I get a cite on that, please.

I searched on gratuitous profanity in ATMB and couldn’t find anything by a mod/admin about that. I’m not doubting you, but I’d like to see the context. I don’t remember this request from the staff.

[DrDeth]

@Heffalump_and_Roo

Thanks for the correction. But can I get a cite on that, please.

I searched on gratuitous profanity in ATMB and couldn’t find anything by a mod/admin about that. I’m not doubting you, but I’d like to see the context. I don’t remember this request from the staff.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=410122&highlight=profanity&page=2

" Originally Posted by** C K Dexter Haven**
We do find random profanity irritating, and we might change our approach if it were to start appearing frequently and everywhere, that is, in all forums. "

[Liberal]

@Heffalump_and_Roo

My vote. I would like to see these things to NOT be posted in the Pit:
-RO
-self-Pittings
-any Pitting where the OP expects sympathy or understanding (those can go in MPSIMS)
-any Pitting where the OP might be really hurt if someone posted an opposing view
-any Pitting where there’s no opposing viewpoint eg. raping people is bad
-any Pitting with no outrage. . . fake outrage counts if it’s convincing. Whining posts can go in MPSIMS. eg., breaking the lead on your pencil doesn’t count as outrage unless you went on a rampage about it. And the rampage was funny. If the rampage was tragic, it goes in MPSIMS.

That’s a really fine list. Excellent.

@Kalypso

I like that RO is in The Pit.

When I come to The Pit I expect to read things that will provoke a strong reaction in me. Usually this is a strong negative reaction against someone pitting, or against someone being pitted, or being outraged along with someone posting an RO thread.

When I go to MPSIMS, I expect to see puppy pictures, or personal accounts of someone’s experience with something, or perhaps someone posting in need of emotional support. I don’t expect to see threads containing quotes like “Daddy ate my eyes” and I don’t really wish to.

I do really like that RO threads are being marked as such. That way people can read them or pass them over as they like.

That’s true, Kalypso. But the thing about MPSIMS is that there are also things like death notifications. I mean, that ain’t puppies and ice cream. There are threads about sickness, and diseases, and people needing money, and all kinds of things. I don’t know why they don’t do an announcements forum (which has been suggested many times), but RO posts could be marked “RO” just as easily in MPSIMS as they could here in the Pit. And that would accomodate your objection.

[Eureka]

Disclaimer: I am not a frequent poster in the Pit, and arguably am no longer a frequent poster elsewhere on this message board. Nor can I imagine a set of rules for the Pit which would change either of those statements.

My thoughts on what is Pit-worthy:
I like Mini-Rants threads in the Pit–It’s a great opportunity to vent about egregiously annoying stuff without really expecting anyone to respond to it, and I like reading the variety of stuff which irks others. Not that I read them regularly, because they tend to irritate me more than entertain, unless I’m in the right mood.

I don’t like Joke threads–in particular I don’t like threads of jokes percieved as inappropriate for MPSIMS and I don’t like threads supposedly "pit"ting things like avocados, nor do I like threads where people “pit” each other in the spirit of “now you are a real member of the community”. Humorous writing in otherwise serious threads is OK by me.

I like an opportunity for posters to hash out grievances, or (with some reluctance on my part) for posters to pile on someone who “deserves” it and agree that that poster has a tendency to post in irritating ways.

I like similar opportunities with respect to moderators, but not when the posters become abusive.

I really like the idea that if your life sucks and you want sympathy for it, you should post in MPSIMS, and if you want to be told where you went wrong, you should post in the Pit.

I don’t like Recreational Outrage threads, but see no reason they don’t belong in the Pit, I just prefer that they be labeled so I can avoid them on a case by case basis.

[Scylla]

I think the pit should be a free-fire zone.

Let’s say you want to post about how much you love chocolate bunnies.

In IMHO:

OP: I love chocolate bunnies.

Poster: I prefer white chocolate giraffes.

In MPSIMS:

OP: I love chocolate bunnies.

Poster: That’s so cool. Look at my kitty pictures.
In GQ:

OP: I love chocolate bunnies.

Poster: That’s because chemicals in chocolate cause endorphins to be released, activating your pleasure center.
In Cafe Society:

OP: I love chocolate bunnies

Poster: La Chocolatier a wonderful store in Soho makes artisan quality chocolate bunnies from imported cocoa beans

In GD:

OP: I love chocolate bunnies

Poster: That’s because we don’t have socialized medicine and the caregivers have no stake in preventative health care. In civilized countries like Switzerland that have socialized medicine, they’ve been taught that chocolate is unhealthy and nobody eats it. They yodel instead. We should have socialized medicine in the US.

In the Pit

OP: I love chocolate bunnies.

Poster: Stop trolling, you moron. You think we don’t see the racist agenda your propagating with your bankrupt conservative values? We all know “chocolate” is a code word for “black” and “bunnies” is short for “jungle bunnies.”

---

Time was this place only had one rule. If a thread wasn’t working in a particular location, after a while, it got moved or closed. The posters’ placement of a thread in a particular forum kind of tells you what they’re intent is. Lighten the fuck up and let it go. Why crash the groove.

Me, I feel like I need a manual to determine the proper forum. Personally, I’d just rather post everything in the pit where it’s somewhat less anal about what is allowed. I can say what I want and get honest reactions.

Too many rules.

[Carol_Stream]

@Eureka

My thoughts on what is Pit-worthy:
I like Mini-Rants threads in the Pit–It’s a great opportunity to vent about egregiously annoying stuff without really expecting anyone to respond to it, and I like reading the variety of stuff which irks others. Not that I read them regularly, because they tend to irritate me more than entertain, unless I’m in the right mood.

Why can’t Mini-Rants live in MPSIMS? People can vent in MPSIMS. They can even :eek: swear about it. It’s not Pit-worthy.

[bucketybuck]

Would just like to suggest that we take into account peoples motivations in starting threads in the PIT as opposed to other forums.

Whatever the content of the OP, I think people prefer to post certain threads in the PIT because I think there is a different atmosphere/culture in the PIT.

Sure, a thread whinging about Pepsi-free may be perfectly fine in MPSIMS, but I don’t want to hear the reactions of all the MPSIMS kitty-lovers lovers to my Pepsi problem, hell no, I want to hear the evil buggers in the PIT letting loose without restraint. My thread might be mundane as hell, but I dont want an award for good OP’s, I just want to get some good invective going, and some honest reactions.

If we are going to start knocking threads from the PIT into other forums, please remember that the content of an OP does not make up the whole thread, and that many posters will not want GD reactions to their OP, or IMHO reactions, or GQ reactions. They enjoy the PIT, they want PIT reactions.

(This all assumes of course, that each sub-forum has a distinct culture. I believe it does)