This thread arose out of one posted by dreamer about why people didn’t believe in God.
I asked if she would discuss her beliefs in God and the Bible, particularly the age of the Earth. (I’ve also copied another posting over - I hope that’s acceptable.)
If this is too much of a hijack, just ignore me:
I spent last weekend down in Dorset and I saw some interesting gelogical features that I would like somebody to explain in the YEC framework:
The cliffs at Charmouth and Lyme Regis are composed of layer upon layer of deposited silt, some layers have hardened into stone (slate or similar) others, although the layers are preserved, are relatively soft and crumbly. In certain strata, fossils (particularly ammonites) are plentiful.
But maybe every twenty feet or so, there’s a thick single layer of moderately hard stone. There are perhaps twenty such layers in the cliff; each of the layers shows evidence of regular polygonal cracking, seeming to indicate (to me as a non-geologist, at least) that they were originally composed of mud which was allowed to dry out and crack, but since they are twenty feet apart and interspersed with numerous thin layers of mudstone/slate, it seems impossible that they could have been laid down by a single cataclysmic flood event; it seems much more likely that the thin layers represent gradual deposit over a long period and the thick layers represent flood events.
Your thoughts?
dreamer,
I’ll read your link (just as I asked you to read mine!).
On an initial look, I agree with tracer’s points - indeed this is also not evidence:
You can’t say something supports your argument if it’s been retracted.
This is not evidence either.
I’ve reread Genesis chapters 6, 7 and 8.
There is no mention of an angel, let alone Jesus Christ.
Where does this ‘fact’ come from?
I also have a couple of points from arising from Genesis.
Noah and all the animals stayed on the ark just over a year (Feb 17 - Feb 27 the next year). They took all their food with them. It seems incredible to me that they could all fit on - and this point is made in the original talkorigins link in the previous post.
Finally God destroys all life on Earth that didn’t fit onto the Ark. (So just 8 people survived.)
He says (Genesis 6: 7) that he repents having made all these people.
Surely this is not an omnipotent, loving God.
Not quite sure how it is possible to retract a fact, but anyway… 
Carry on
Grim
OK - fair enough.
Genesis 6:1-3 "When men began to inrease in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the Lord said, “My spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal, his days will be a hundred and twenty years.” (So they had 120 years to repent and think about what they were doing and during that time Noah was building the Ark.)
Let me continue on that and explain why I bolded the Sons of God.
Genesis 4:8 "The Nephilim were on the Earth in those days and also afterward, when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children with them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil at the time. The Lord was grieved that he made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the Lord said, “I will wipe out mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth.”
So the men slept with fallen angels, they had offspring and continued to live lives of wickedness.
It’s always been Satan’s plan to try to thwart the plan of God. His plan was to dilute the gene pool with outside genes from the Sons of God , so a Messiah could never be born.
Only 8 people survived - The Lord said to Noah in Genesis 7:1-2 “Go into the Ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.” Meaning he did not intermingle with the Nephilim so he was pure from that contaminated gene pool.
He never said he didn’t forsee it, but men still have free will. He had to give them a chance.
Your turn 
With all respect, dreamer, I don’t think there is a scriptural basis for this assertion.
Not only that, but this continued assertion that Satan is God’s enemy or rival contradicts the assertion that God is omnipotent and the only deity. Either the Christians who believe this are saying that there are two deities (God and Satan) or that God is not omnipotent.
Dreamer, please tell me what your basis in the Bible is for believing that Satan is as powerful as God and not believing that Satan works for God and is doing what God has instructed him to do?
Where does it say that mankind had a chance to repent?
I interpret Genesis 6: 3 to simply mean that man’s natural lifespan would be about 120 years.
There is no Biblical warning by God. Genesis 6: 7 sinply says God will destroy man.
Also, why do you say that Noah was building the Ark then?
But the sons of God were heroes and men of renown, not fallen angels.
I don’t understand why God allows fallen angels, whom He also created, to corrupt almost the entire planet.
As Squish says, why is Satan permitted do this?
There must have been children recently born when the flood killed them. Are you saying they were irredeemably evil?
If God did foresee it would be necessary to kill so many people, why did He go ahead? Isn’t He a loving and merciful God?
That looks like the NIV translation you’re quoting from there.
I have in my hand the Today’s English Version of the bible (a.k.a. “The Good News Bible”). It translates Genesis 6:3 thusly:
“Then the LORD said, ‘I will not allow people to live forever; they are mortal. From now on they will live no longer than 120 years.’”
In other words, God wasn’t giving a 120 year count-down to the Flood in this verse, he was proclaiming that 120 years would be the maximum life span of anyone living from then on. Genesis 6:1-4 seems to have little or nothing to do with God’s motivation for creating a global Flood.
Darn it, glee beat me to it. I shoulda hit Refresh.
Upon reading the recent posts here I just want to make a few things clear before I go on, if that’ okay.
I’m not backing out at all (though I wonder why the heck I do this to myself ), but I don’t have the time or the energy to respond to every single question here and I really wish there was someone else on this board who has the same beliefs that I do, that would come along to help me out. Wouldn’t that be nice.
glee I would like to ask you, since you started this thread, if it’s only for “evidence to support the bible”, or is it okay for me to ask you questions to support evolution? Or should that be a completely different thread?
I will be careful not to add any of my “opinions” here then.
Satan was not always evil. In the beginning, he was an angel created in perfection and beauty. Angels were given a will with a free moral choice, and “Lucifer” chose to do evil and rebelled against God.
Isaiah 14:12-15, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”
Satan’s sins were pride and covetousness. He desired God’s throne and set his will against God’s will. Five times he said, “I will” in this portion of Scripture. He wanted to be God and proceeded to influence 1/3 of the angels to follow him.
God never meant for evil to exist. It was simply the opposite of good, and since it takes a free will for evil to come into existence, Lucifer was the first created being to exercise his will against God. Satan caused a third of heaven to fall with him by influencing other angelic beings to make war against God. They too were cast out of heaven.
Revelation 12:7-9 (Living Bible Translation)
“Then there was war in Heaven; Michael and the angels under his command fought the Dragon and his hosts of fallen angels. And the Dragon lost the battle and was forced from Heaven. This great Dragon - the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world - was thrown down onto the earth with all his army.”
But if he was perfect surely he wouldn’t want to commit evil?
Welcome to the boards MrThompson
**he was an angel created in perfection - He himself was not perfect.
Then why did he create the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? For there to be knowledge of evil, evil must exist. If God created everything, he then created evil, no?
Lucifer, and not Eve, or the serpent?
IMO, Lucifer gets a bad rap, in the Bible and from Christians, because they can’t accept that God can be as nasty as he is. (This is assuming that the JC god actually exists, which I don’t believe, personally.)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by glee *
Genesis 7:6 “Noah was 600 years old when the floodwaters came on the earth”
"Enoch preached against the ungodliness of his day. He named his son Methuselah, which means, “when he is dead, it [judgment] will come.” As a testimony of God’s grace and patience, Methuselah lived 969 years, longer than any other human being. Finally he died in the year of the flood. But God’s warnings were ignored.
The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means “death” ; and from shalach, which means “to bring,” or “to send forth.” Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, “his death shall bring.”
And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came. Methuselah was 187 when he had Lamech, and lived 782 years more. Lamech had Noah when he was 182.7 The Flood came in Noah’s 600th year.8 187 + 182 + 600 = 969, Methuselah’s age when he died.
It is interesting that Methuselah’s life was, in effect, a symbol of God’s mercy in forestalling the coming judgment of the flood. It is therefore fitting that his lifetime is the oldest in the Bible, symbolizing the extreme extensiveness of God’s mercy."
Again, he created the angels and they used their free will to choose against him. The only reason I can think of as to “why” he allows them to do what they do on Earth is so that all human beings can be exposed to good and evil and make their choices. That is only an opinion of mine.
"Procreation by parents of differing religious views do not produce unnatural offspring. It was this unnatural procreation and the resulting abnormal creatures that were designated as a principal reason for the judgment of the Flood.
The very absence of any such adulteration of the human genealogy in Noah’s case is also documented in Genesis 6:9: Noah’s family tree was distinctively unblemished. The term used, tamiym, is used for physical blemishes."
Again I have to say it’s all about “free will”. If I were to answer this question it would all be IMO so I won’t.
The information quoted in my posts are from Koinonia House Online
Dreamer,
I think that people with your beliefs may well be in a distinct minority.
Of course we all have other commitments, so feel free to take your time in replying.
Quality, not quantity! 
I think another thread would indeed be appropriate. Then we would have:
I must warn you that thread 3 will get technical, but as a teacher (not biology though!) I trust things will be explained with clarity.
Anyone who fails to be clear in their posting will be kept behind…
I expect that was your sense of humour showing again.
But tracer is making a serious point.
As I said, we respect your personal belief in God.
But this thread is about evidence we can all examine and evaluate.
Now here’s a repeated comment by the source you quoted.
From the article ‘WHAT WAS NOAH’S ARK REALLY LIKE?’ (bolding mine):
The side door was positioned so that when closed it became part of the wall of the superstructure. It was an angel sent by God who closed this massive door when all were aboard, a week before the rains came. In fact it was the true angel of the Covenant, Jesus Christ the Righteous as we know Him…
And I asked you:
(having) reread Genesis chapters 6, 7 and 8, there is no mention of an angel, let alone Jesus Christ.
Where does this ‘fact’ come from?
Do you agree that Jesus Christ helped with the ark?
If so, where is it mentioned in scripture?
I realise you might be getting fed up with our constant nagging about evidence and accuracy.
The reason I’m doing it is that you believe the following:
8 people built an 450 foot long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high ark, mainly out of reeds, and covered it with pitch.
They herded two of every animal on Earth into it, together with enough food to last them all over a year.
This ark coped with a flood which covered the planet to a depth of 25 feet.
Now my opinion is that this is impossible (perhaps it’s a parable).
But if we just trade opinons, we won’t have much of a discussion.
So we need to keep examining the evidence.
No. I have no idea where they came up with that idea. I will admit I did not read that page thouroughly enough and would not have linked it if I did :o. I apologize for that and will not do that again.
I believe it’s possible that the Ark was built exactly as God told Noah to build it. There are no scriptures stating if anyone helped him build it or how long it took exactly, or how the animals got into the boat. ::insert biting tounge smiley here::
I’m curious, if you think it may be a parable, then what would it mean to you? (if you were a believer)
Just don’t forget to respond to mine