Exactly. I’m not heartless: if he puts on a sweater or sweatshirt and still feels cold, then we can talk. But as long as he’s just wearing thin t-shirts, no sale.
What is the legal or generally accepted as reasonable standard for providing heat in a child's room?
There’s nothing subjective about wearing t-shirts all winter and whining about being cold at room temperature. Once you’re dressed appropriately for the season you can start to consider someone’s personal temperature comfort level.
If someone showed up at your house in July in a heavy wool sweater and scarf complaining it was too hot, how much time would you spend worrying about why they’re ‘subjectively’ interpreting the house as too warm? I’m pretty sure most people would tell them they’re a jackass and to take their fucking scarf and sweater off.
If he wants to argue the “what’s legal” side, point out that you could feed him nutra-loaf every meal and be providing acceptable nutrition.
Eh, I wear a t-shirt all winter, I hate wearing more clothes than I have to indoors. Luckily, my preferences run cold and I live in a mild climate so it’s never been an issue about heating and I’m also a grown ass adult who can do whatever he wants.
But it still seems to me this is about some regressive puritanical “punishment” over non-conformity rather than an actual discussion over heat. Again, we’re quibbling over around a dollar a day here, just let him do whatever’s comfortable and stop stressing. Every meaningless battle you fight with your kids is a missed opportunity to fight a meaningful one.
For me I couldn’t stand being in a house with the furnace set to 84F. But this house seems to strangely have independent room climate control, which is cool but not a feature I’ve seen in many homes.
so he should be able to crank up the heat and make everyone else miserable. F that S.
The house apparently has independent climate zones but, even if it didn’t, a space heater would allow him to only heat up a single room witbout affecting other residents.
Right: it’s less clear cut than many battles over “the thermostat” because it is only about his own bedroom. Our fundamental objection is the waste of electricity, both because of the cost and because we are environmentalists (though in response to the latter point, he argues that we use too much AC in the summer and should cut back there, which I can’t completely dispute).
That might be fine for most families, but our budget is so tight we allot my wife and me each fifteen dollars a month for spending money–in case we want to buy a latte, go to a movie, buy a book, etc. That’s obviously a very small amount of spending money, probably the smallest we’ve ever had in our lives. But it is all we have left after paying our bills (we do “budget billing” so our utility bills are the same each month) and setting aside a set amount each month in various envelopes (some for every-month expenses like groceries, others in things like a fund for birthday and Christmas/solstice gifts). We don’t use credit, so we literally live paycheck to paycheck (we don’t save for retirement, but my wife is a schoolteacher and has a pension).
So an extra dollar a day would wipe out all our already limited spending money, and I’m not keen to do that. (I suppose technically it is only during the winter, so maybe it would only knock out a third or a fourth of that money for the year, but still.)
I do agree with you in general, and am amused to think of myself being seen as “puritanical” (I don’t even believe in sexual monogamy) or “regressive” (I’m a political liberal, and don’t believe in spanking kids). I assiduously try to avoid the trap so many parents fall into of getting into pissing contests with their kids just to establish “who’s boss” (the old “because I said so” bit). I’m willing to let my kids make reasoned arguments on any topic, with the proviso that ultimately my wife and I have the final say, and no whining after we’ve considered their objections and (most but not all the time) found them lacking.
It’s not nearly as fancy as this sounds; in fact, just the opposite. Each room has at least one baseboard heater (multiple in larger rooms), down on the floor in the corner where the floor meets the wall. Each one has a “thermostat” dial on it, but there are no temperature numbers. You have to bend way over or kneel to adjust it, and you can hear a little “click” as you pass the point where it cuts on or off one way or the other. Thus we use the thermometers (just little three-dollar mercury ones) in each room to gauge whether it needs to be turned up or not. Also annoyingly, it seems like a range of 60-80 degrees is found within a very small arc, so that to adjust a degree or two takes the hands of a safecracker, LOL.
So I can understand that he might think he was turning it up only “a little” but it shot up to 84. The issue is that once I went to adjust it back down (I know about the right spot, and continued to verify with the thermometer), there was a major argument.
I know you’re joking, but I bet that would not pass legal muster unless everyone in the house were limited to eating it. (By the same token, if my wife and I kept our bedroom at 75 but only let our kids have 70, that would be questionable.) And it also seems like there are a lot of things parents can get by with if they are still together, co-parenting the kids, that one parent can’t get by with if they are separated and divorced and the other parent objects.
at night in the winter, I used to close the bedroom door and open a window - summer and winter
Winter temps would be in a band of -2 to around 5 centigrade most nights.
I wouldn’t have to much sympathy for someone who insisted on being dressed in a t-shirt all winter
I used to like it really cold at night too, with a big comforter on top, but then I started to get neck pain if the temp was under 68.
I’ve never heard about a jurisdiction having specific temperature or insulation requirements. The standard is that the child must not be “neglected”. That’s generally a holistic assessment made by busybody social workers who arguably aren’t likely to come around unless someone has already complained to them about a problem.
Are there any jurisdictions that have specific rules about this, such as specifying minimum or maximum temperatures that constitute “per se” neglect regardless of whether the child was actually in any meaningful danger?
As I noted above, “busybody” social workers are, I think, more likely to get involved in cases when the parents are separated/divorced.
It might sound silly, but could you pull off the knob and clean the contacts with a shot of WD-40? Maybe the dial would work less fussily.
And if that doesn’t work, set the temp and remove the knobs, period.
Does he get any monthly spending money such as the $15 you and your wife get? If so, you could do the thing where he can choose to spend his money on himself or on heat. It would remove you from the dynamic of the battle and let him pay his own consequences.
I like the space heaters that look like freestanding radiators. They do use added electricity, but they stay warm a good while after they cycle off. That could be an option.
I hated wearing more than a T-shirt and shorts until I found a *really *soft lightweight polartec jacket and some really comfy sweat pants. They’re so soft and warm that I am now a turn-down-the-thermostat gal.
Good idea. It could also be that his radiator isn’t working all that well, so bleeding it might be an idea - it’s a good idea for most radiators at the beginning of winter. Even if the thermometer says it’s warm when you look at it that doesn’t mean it’s warm all night, when it’s needed, or there might be a draft where he’s sitting.
But yeah, he really can’t argue unless he’s wearing a fleece or something warm. He’s a growing kid, so you’ll have to buy him clothes now and then anyway; next time, ask him what warm clothing he’d be comfortable in because a poster above was right about some people findng wool and some other warm garments uncomfortable; fleece isn’t though, even synthetic fleece (which is cheap).
If he uses the computer a lot then some warm clothing can be awkward to type in (I find so, anyway), but adding some thick fleecy socks and a fleece waistcoat-type thing would be warming without being encumbering. Or anything where he can roll up the sleeves.
A heat pad can be a really good way to keep warm if you’re mostly staying in the same place. They’re also handy for period pains or joint/back/muscle pain so they’re a good thing to have around. I know money is tight, but Christmas is coming up, so maybe a cheap one of those could be one of your presents to him.
Consider letting him keep the electric blanket on while he sleeps. I understand your concern, I worried about sleeping under an electric blanket and avoided it for years.
I finally gave in because I was just so miserable every night. Our body temperature drops when we sleep. I would have to curl up, laying on my hands and pulling my feet up as close to my body as I could. It was awful. Now that I use a heated mattress pad I sleep much better.
Here’s a somewhat related article about room temperature causing insomnia:
I have to wonder about cultural factors involved.
When I first started working in offices it seems people covered up a lot by modern standards - men wore wool suits and kept the jacket on all day. Women wore skirts AND jackets, some offices forbid short sleeves, and panty hose were mandatory. Now it seems men are in shirtsleeves all day, if not polo tops, and just try to find something in the women’s aisle with long sleeves these days!
If the British office workers are still dressing with with longer sleeves and wearing jackets then having a lower room temperature compared to Americans wandering about in short sleeves and, for the women, short skirts that might account for some of the difference.
True. Sudden need for much higher room temperatures was ONE of the symptoms one of my sisters experienced when her thyroid stopped working in her late teens. As noted, though, it’s usually not the only symptom.
When my allergies act up I do lose some of my cold tolerance and might even feel chilled. Are his allergies under control?
Having low body fat can make you less cold tolerant, too.
That said - he’s got to learn that there are clothes other than t-shirts.
When he’s paying for the heat he can set the thermostat wherever he likes. Until then, he needs to compromise. He needs to figure out what he can wear over that t-shirt when he gets chilled, throw an extra blanket on the bed, or whatever