What Is Too Much Dairy?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve been eating less meat of late and I’ve found that when I do so I tend to eat more dairy. This isn’t inherently a problem, after all, a lacto-vegetarian diet is workable, right? But I’m wondering if I may be going overboard on the dairy.

Oh, why am I cutting down on meat? To eat more vegees. I’m not interested in going totally vegetarian, but I think a high vegee diet is healthier than a low vegee one. Also, a high vegee diet has a lot of fiber in it (I eat greens, root vegees, and a bunch of other stuff besides just potatoes) and that keeps things moving along. I find the older I get the more fiber I need to keep the, uh, trains running on time and that keeps me feeling better.

I don’t want to cut down on one thing only to overdo another. I mean, I could sit down and eat a half pound or more of cheese at a sitting but I don’t because that strikes me as a little bit much.

Mind you, I’m not the sort that drizzles cheese sauce over everything - in fact, I prefer my vegees without cheese all over them. Not every meal has dairy in it. I do a lot of Asian-style cooking that has no dairy at all in it.

I do, however, eat a cheese sandwich for breakfast every morning and have for a number of decades. I find if I have, say, a baked potato and green beans for lunch I tend to have butter on the potato and maybe a hunk of cheese to go with it. I’ve developed a likely for potato soup made with cream, or at least milk. I like the creamy pasta sauces which, of course, have dairy in them. The household milk is 2% due to the spouse’s preferences.

And probably my favorite desert is a scoop of ice cream. I eat dessert maybe once or twice a month.

Right now, my weight is right at the top of the range where I want it to be (BMI 26, although we all know that’s an imperfect measure). According to my doctor, my cholesterol is overall 150 and while the good to bad ratio isn’t perfect he says that given all my other overall stats and the fact it is low (in the sense of “not high”, not in the sense of “abnormally small amount”) overall he isn’t worried about it. I’m highly glucose tolerant and have no troubles digesting it.

So… how much is too much? I realize this is very much a matter of opinion and hope ya’ll remember that, too. Just interested in what other folks think and why.

2

If you don’t have any problems associated with consuming dairy products, don’t worry so much about how much dairy vs how many calories. Butter and ice cream don’t count as dairy products nutritionally speaking. Butter is a fat and should be used sparingly. Ice cream as well isn’t nutritionally a dairy product. It has so much fat and sugar that any nutritional benefit is negated. In that same vein, cream should be limited as well. Low fat milk, yogurt, and cheese - the recommended amount is 2-3 servings per day with a serving being 8 oz of milk or yogurt and cheese being 1 oz. Full fat dairy contains a good amount of saturated fat, so switching from the 2% to 1% or fat free will make a difference.

3

Sounds like your body is tolerating it fine. What’s your blood pressure like? Blood sugars okay? Waist to hip circumference in the happy zone? How do you feel? Can you move like you want to, lift a gallon of milk and carry it up several flights of stairs without getting winded?

It’s certainly worth keeping an eye on such numbers and qualitative/functional measures of health as you age, just like everyone else. But humans are omnivores, and can generally tolerate a pretty wide variety of diets.

4

It is much better to cut down on processed food than something that has nutrients in it. See here; note how many calories come from added fats and sugars (about 40% of the average daily intake). By replacing those, without cutting meat*, you can increase your consumption of fruits and vegetables by 4-5 times.

*Except for processed meat (a mere 2 ounces a day increases your risk of CVD by a whopping 42%; which to to say, nearly 1 in 3 heart attacks may be due to processed meat - so vegetarians are on to something when they say that meat is unhealthy, but so are all of the processed food-like substances made with largely vegetarian ingredients that provide a majority of our calories; the key word in both cases is “processed”)

As for too much dairy, I don’t think there is any concern as long as you aren’t lactose intolerant or trying to eat nothing by dairy. Of note, people who have high dairy consumption have a lower risk of cardiovascular disease and diabetes. Interestingly also, high fat dairy may actually be better than reduced or fat-free dairy (they also looked at CVD and diabetes, with no conclusive evidence that dairy fat is bad; it is also known that certain fatty acids in dairy (and beef) are beneficial):

The only caveat is, what if you, like myself, drink a fixed amount of milk at a time; whole milk has far more calories than the 1% milk I drink, the correlations here may simply be because high-fat dairy is more satisfying (as for the correlations between CVD and dairy fat, which has a higher saturated:total ratio than meat, a simple LDL number is meaningless).

Myself, I drink about 5 cups of milk a day, including milk used in cereal, but not including other dairy products, although I don’t eat much cheese or other dairy.

5

100/60 to 110/70

Yep. Those get checked once a year, too.

Not sure - what’s the “happy zone”? I still have a waist, and the spouse still chases me around the room (we just move slower these days). Waist just measured at 33, hips at 42. I believe that’s a ratio of .78

Meh - like I’m pushing 50. Which I am.

Yes.

It is. But if you’re eating largely vegetables and grains made from scratch they’d be pretty boring and ick without added fat/oil of some sort. A totally fat-free diet wouldn’t be healthy, either.

1 scoop of ice cream is about 179 calories. Granted, about 45% of those calories are from fat, but when the rest of the meal is rice and steamed green beans (which I don’t eat with butter, just a little salt) that’s not a big deal. Also about 4 grams of protein (not a huge amount, but present) and around 17% of the daily requirement for calcium. Sugar does not negate the value of that protein and calcium, it’s not an “anti-nutrient” of some sort. It’s not where you want to get the majority of those things but to say ice cream isn’t a “dairy product” and it has no nutritional value is nonsense. It is certainly more nutritious than, say, the equivalent calorie value of gummie bears.

I’d rather shoot myself in the head. I actually like skim milk, but I find yogurt of any sort (unless concealed in a sauce) to be repulsive and I refuse to eat low fat cheese, it’s disgusting.

Hmm… so, the caveat here is that I’m not going to eat reduced fat dairy. It’s full fat or none for the most part. I’d rather eat a little bit of the real thing than massive amounts of the reduced fat craptastic plastic stuff. If that’s going to alter anyone’s definition of “too much” so be it. Obviously, since it does contain fat there are calories to be accounted for. That might be why I try to eat either meat or cheese but not both at the same meal. I also avoid sodas - waaaay too many calories there. I’d rather spend my “large calorie item allowance” on things like real butter.

So let’s refine the statement - assuming full fat dairy products in most cases, how much is too much? Keeping in mind that in some instances “dairy product” falls under “fats and oils” more than “protein source” or something else.

6

Due to food allergy problems I already do most of my cooking from scratch. I eat some processed stuff but aside from cheese it’s not a daily part of my diet. I do take sugar in my tea, but that’s about 30-40 calories a 12 ounce mug rather than the 240 (or more!) in the same amount of soda, which I gave up long ago.

Since I cook mostly from scratch I actually do have a better idea of the fat and sugar content of my food than most Americans. Since I’m working full time again I’m not baking my own bread products, and I know the commercial breads contain more sugars/calories than my homemade version but I only have so much time in a day or a week.

I probably get most of my dairy in cheese form (or butter/sauce). Don’t drink it that often, and while I use it in cereal I don’t eat much cereal, just a couple bowls a month.

7

OK, I never said you should be eating a no fat diet, and was only pointing out that ice cream doesn’t count for a dairy serving per the USDA. I didn’t say it wasn’t a dairy product (although you have to check the label - a LOT of ice cream in the stores isn’t made with dairy at all and is called frozen dessert). Full fat dairy is high in saturated fat which should be monitored in your diet. Since you say you like skim milk, change your milk to skim, but keep yogurt and cheese full fat. If reduced fat dairy is off the table, then in order to limit your saturated fat intake, you might consider having less. Put olive oil on your veggies in place of the butter. Or don’t. It’s up to you. I’m studying nutrition and as you were asking for information, I thought I’d share.

To get down to the basis of your question though, if you start gaining weight or having “adverse” effects, maybe change something up. If a cup of ice cream every night is within your caloric needs, keep eating it. I’d be more worried about you if you had no dairy in your diet and trying to get you to eat more.

8

That’s beautiful!

Good! http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/tools/hip_to_waist/hip_to_waist.shtml

I am not your doctor (or anyone else’s), but those are some gorgeous numbers, which don’t indicate an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, hypertension, stroke, diabetes or metabolic syndrome (sometimes known as “prediabetes”) by current guidelines.

Keep up the good work! Enjoy your cheese. :slight_smile:

9

I only buy real ice cream, yes, I’m a label reader.

My goodness - I have to wonder if you actually read what I wrote, or if you’re just posting boilerplate?

We buy 2% because my husband won’t drink anything with less milkfat in it, and I don’t drink much milk at all. I stopped buying skim milk because even a quart would go bad before I got around to drinking it all. And yogurt - yuck, it tastes rotten to me. After my bout with norovirus in 2005 I flat out told the GI guy I wouldn’t eat yogurt for the cultures because it made me gag and resuming vomiting would probably be a bad idea. So I got probiotic pills instead. I literally hadn’t had anything to eat for an entire week and I still couldn’t bring myself to swallow it.

I guess really I’m a cheese and butter gal… but hey, if folks like yogurt more power to them. Aside from a few sauces that use it I stay away from it.

Except I’m not eating it every night… about once or twice a month.

10

Yes I did read what you wrote. Some of what I posted was general information that I thought other people might benefit from as well. I missed that ice cream was occasional. I’m not trying to be argumentative. If all (most) of your dairy sources are butter and cheese, then I don’t know what to tell you that you will want to hear. Butter doesn’t count as a dairy serving. It’s fat and only fat. And since it’s saturated fat, it needs to be eaten with limitation. I love butter. It’s delicious. But facts is facts.

So now your only dairy source is cheese. How much cheese are you eating every day? How many ounces? Two to three ounces will put you in the recommended guidelines. Since you are eating full fat cheese, (which I think is fine), then watching your saturated fat intake may be even more important. The recommendation is for 20-30% of your daily caloric intake be from fat, but no more than 10% of those calories should be saturated. None should come from trans fats if possible. The bulk of your fat calories should be from mono- and polyunsaturated fats and oils.

But if you are consuming these foods with no ill effects (weight gain, high triglycerides, high BP, etc…) which you state that you aren’t, then I see no reason to tell you to stop. I was simply answering your question to the best of my ability. You were the one concerned that you were eating too much.

11

Well… how much full fat cheese do you consider too much? How much butter do you consider too much?

At least two ounces a day, every day. 4 ounces a couple times a week. Probably occasionally 8 ounces but that’s about as often as the ice cream (although not the same day!)

That’s olive oil and vegetable oils, right? Hmm… the stir frying is all done with liquid-at-room-temperature oils. Fish a couple times a week - which category is the fat/oil in fish? (I incline towards salmon, mostly) No transfats as much as I can help it.

Actually, I don’t know if I’m eating “too much” or not. How does one define “too much”? Saturated fats? Calories? Displacement of other foods?

12

Actually, Hockey Monkey, I think what annoyed me about your post was what I perceived to be your assumption that I automatically wanted to increase my dairy intake, hence your recommendations about low fat cheese, etc. It’s not so much that I want to increase it as I’m concerned I may be eating too much already. It’s not that I want to change what dairy I eat, it’s that I don’t want to over do what I am eating.

If that wasn’t your intention then I’m sorry I took it the wrong way.

13

First of all you need to know your Basal Metabolic Rate(BMR) - how many calories your body needs each day to stay the same (neither losing nor gaining weight). That number will make up the entirety of your calorie pie chart. Now you divide up your pie into fat, protein and carbohydrates.

The Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommends this distribution for the energy-producing nutrients:

Fat: 20 - 35% of total calories (average 30%) - no more than 7-10% of your calories should be saturated fats
Protein: 10 – 35% (average 15%)
Carbohydrates: 45 – 65% (average 55%)

Alcohol, the fourth energy-producing nutrient, is recommended in moderation if at all. The ideal pie chart would fall within any of these percentages. Make your diet healthier by choosing high fiber carbohydrates, low-fat proteins, and fats from plant- instead of animal sources.

Here is an easy to understand table on the Dietary Fat Guidelines that I think answers most of your questions about sources for good fats. If you like avocados, they are one of the best.

Try keeping a food diary for a week or using a free tracking site like sparkpeople or livestrong to track your calories to see where they are coming from and if you need to make any changes. Without knowing your total diet, it’s hard to make specific recommendations. As long as your calorie pie chart is within the dietary guidelines (and you are eating the right amount of calories) then there isn’t much to worry about. The reason I say to track for a week is that one or two days doesn’t give you a good nutritional picture. You can’t eat exactly “right” every day. You just kinda have to average everything out.

If you have any other questions, let me know. :slight_smile:

14

Yes, I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. I thought that if you were eating too much, you could make a small change to what you were consuming in order to eat the same amount. Most people I encounter don’t want to hear “eat less”, they want alternatives.

15

Two ounces a day meet the recommended guidelines for dairy. Four ounces a couple times a week is fine. If you go to 8 occasionally, don’t worry about it. Enjoy.

Butter I’d limit to 1-2 teaspoons a day.

16

I think you’re doing fine, Broomstick. Especially since you don’t eat a lot of processed foods, and increasing veggies can only be a good thing.

Since this is IMHO - my mother and stepfather were vegetarian for about 30 years. Now they eat meat and fish occasionally…but they eat a ridiculous amount of full-fat cheese, (home-made) yoghurt, whole milk, ice cream, butter. My mother is in her 80s now, both are healthy as oxen and my mom still goes on hikes and does yoga, including standing on her head once a day.

They do eat a very high-veggie, high-grain and legume, non-processed diet but I know for a fact that both eschew margarine, low-fat cheese and other such abominations.

I think as long as you continue to monitor your bp and cholesterol levels - which appear admirable - you’re just fine. I have this theory - picked up by my parents - that one can “get away” with eating all manner of naughty things as long as you compensate by eating a very fiber-rich diet.

17

It’s interesting that you keep saying that animal fats are really bad, despite my previous post full of cites (actual studies) that indicate that isn’t the case (high fat dairy not linked to CVD, same for meat, red meat, unless processed (bacon, sausages, lunch meat, etc), saturated fats do raise LDL but LDL itself is a broad category, of which the small particles are bad and carbohydrates increase those while saturated fats increase the harmless large particles; note too that saturated fats can be present in significant amounts in plant-based foods too, like palm oil, and yes, avocados):

Observe that some traditional peoples like the Inuit ate what we might consider to be a VERY unhealthy diet today, loaded with gobs of animal fats (fish also has a lot of saturated fat, for example, salmon, although the omega-3s are very beneficial), with few fruits and vegetables, yet enjoyed good cardiovascular health - until they began eating a Western diet. True, high-fat foods have more calories, but the kind of fat isn’t as important (as long as you get enough of the essentially fats; note that even for those, too much omega-3 can raise the risk of stroke and other disorders, half a salmon fillet exceeds the recommended limit of 3 grams per day (on a daily basis, so it isn’t a problem to eat it a couple times a week).

18

The big problem with animal fats (IMO) these days is that people eat too many for their activity level. One reason the Inuit could thrive on such a high fat diet was because of the calories they burned with daily living in the Arctic. It’s not just the western diet, it’s having thoroughly heated homes so they expend less energy on keeping warm, it’s having snowmobiles instead of using dog sleds or their own two feet, and so on.

If you are extremely active (by today’s standards) then you can safely eat more saturated fats because your body will burn off more for energy. If you’re a dedicated couch potato you can run into the problems normally associated with animal/saturated fats even on a low-fat diet simply because you just aren’t burning off the calories.

It’s like what they say - no food is inherently “bad”, it’s the amount that’s important. Occasional high fat or high salt isn’t harmful as long as it is occasional, meaning “not every day” and in some cases “once a week or less”.

19

Wow, really? That seems low.

Then again, upon reflection, when I do rice with a sauce incorporating butter it’s 1 tablespoon for two servings, so that would be about 1.5 for each person. Hmm, one of those a day probably OK (and I don’t eat those daily anyway. The only thing I really do eat every day is a cheese sandwich for breakfast).

20

Again, why do you have such a problem with MEAT? Do you even know what the average daily caloric intake from meat is? How about around 480 calories per day, out of 2,500? Now, how about added fats and sugars? Oh, around 1,000 calories combined - or twice as much, 40% vs. 20% (fruits and vegetables are only 250 calories, so if you replaced added fats and sugars with those, you increase intake by FIVE fold). Or, don’t eat added fats and sugars at all and you consume only 1,500 calories per day, which is less than most people need.

And note again:

Here is another article on this, noting that cutting out fat from the diet was no more effective than other forms of weight loss over the long term (fats also help curb appetite, thus the connection between high-fat dairy and weight loss noted above).

Also, you are so concerned about saturated fat, right? Well, dairy has a LOT of saturated fat in it; a cup of whole milk has 8 grams of fat and 5 grams of saturated fat, over 60% of the total, while beef has a proportion of around 40%; also, milk from other animals (common in other regions) has even more fat than cow’s milk (17 grams, 11.2 saturated (over 50% of the RDA), and 265 calories per cup of sheep’s milk; water buffalo has fewer calories but a similar fat content to sheep).

So in conclusion, attacking meat and/or dairy by claiming that it is causing people to become unhealthy and obese is totally unwarranted (Hey! Drop that doughnut!).