Fortunately, thanks to our draconian gun laws D.C. has been completely crime free for the past 20 years, so this isn’t an issue I have to worry about.
Wow. There definitely needs to be some serious police reform in your country, I would say. I can’t imagine a police officer basically admitting that he can’t do his job properly and thus advises a private citizens to pursue self-justice!
The other reason why I would not keep a gun in my house (if I had a house) is the same why I don’t carry self-defense weapons in my purse: any weapon can be taken away (okay, maybe those who have had extensive firearms training have a better grip - but a normal person in a panic situation?), and used against you. The only exception are my hands and feet, i.e. self-defense by martial arts (and that’s what our police recommends for women on the street. To defend houses, the police recommends alarm systems.)
The police in the US do not exist to protect the individual (biased site here, but with cites). IANAL
So any cop that recommends someone buy a gun for self protection should, IMNSHO, be praised for admitting that there is absolutely no way that a handful of police officers can be everywhere all the time. If there were, there would be no crime. I don’t remember where constanze is from (sorry) but if there is any crime in your country then the police are less than 100% effective and therefore not doing their job properly? Obviously, if your country is totally crime-free I withdraw my comment.
I really don’t understand this. Are you saying that a person with two .45 caliber Winchester Silvertip hollowpoints in their face and/or chest will come at me and rassle my gun out of my hand while I continue to pump shots into them? Really? If so, then guns aren’t at all dangerous and shouldn’t be regulated at all. What a relief that is!
Or are you saying that if you pull a gun and obviously don’t intend to shoot someone they’ll come and disarm you? Because that I can believe.
I’m from Germany, and while we do have crime (of course), and while I of course do not expect a police officer to be everywhere all the time, I certainly expect the police to keep not only the peace and general public, but also individual people safe.
I meant also the other problems you have with your police (some of which may come from inadequate training - how long do the officers go to Academy, and what are they taught re: civil rights, anti-racism etc.?) - the blatant racism, corrupt rings (some police departments have been accused as organized crime units, if I understood the terminiology right) and so on. Added to this apparently underfunding and understaffing in some areas makes it hard to effectivly curb crime.
What I was trying to say that if you have somebody who has no training, and is in a panic situation, he might not shoot soon enough to have the weapon wrestled from him. (If you start shooting as soon as a shadow moves, you end up with the old “Homeowner shoots his own son” problem - I don’t have the cite for it, but some statistics said that much more people are killed by mistakes like this than actual robbers shot or deterred.)
And even if there’s a determination to shoot - how many people will hit accurately without training, taking into account things like recoil and darkness and excitment? So if the first shot doesn’t kill, the intruder can still take the weapon away.
(The other case is what you didn’t mention: if an alarm doesn’t wake you up first, you might be aiming at the first intruder while the second intruder stands already behind you. :eek: )
In general, most of us are very safe (regardless of what you might hear about the States). The vast majority of violent crime appears to me to be gang/drug related, and rarely touches people outside the urban core. This produces a disconnect between what we perceive and what is real, but if I have guns for hunting/target shooting/competition, I feel it’d be negligent of me to not be prepared to use it to protect my family as well. People living in high-crime areas probably have a different outlook on things.
OH! Great Og yes! That’s entirely different and I agree 100%. Somewhere around here is a thread (or 6) all about people complaining about the average American city police. Probably still not as widespread as it’s made out to be, but I sure wouldn’t want to be a black man in a big city. This sickens me, but I fear it’s reality. As a German/Irish descendent I don’t face the same problems as African American do, so I can’t really comment on if it’s as bad as we hear.
The alternative is to not shoot someone who means you harm. Case A - you are facing someone wounded or dead. Case B - you are wounded or dead.
Of course, identify your target and don’t start blasting away at shadows, but if someone means to hurt you and you don’t shoot them, how are you ahead?
I’ve said before that I don’t own anything that is worth taking a life for. Nothing in my home is worth killing over. My family is a different story - I’d fight with tooth and claw, broken bottles, pointy things, anything I can get my hands on, and I’d lay down my life in a second to keep them safe. If an intruder is after my kids or my wife, the risk that they might get my gun out of my hand is well worth it.
To answer one of your questions police academies are usually 4-6 months of full time training followed by whatever in house training each individual department has. Generally an new officer is in training status for his first year. I lived in Germany for two years. The police is in no way more able to protect each individual there than here. If the crime rate is lower or you are safer it is for other reasons. Let me know which technique is being used to keep intruders out of houses? What special techniques do they useto keep people safe before crime occurs? There certainly isn’t a cop on every street corner in Germany.
To get back on track, I have a Glock 21, a Glock 27, a CZ 75 9mm and a Walther P38. I am authorized to carry just about any where in the country but I don’t do it much any more.
I’m glad I read this thread. I bought a rechargeable 3 million candlepower spotlight and it never occured to me that it would be an effective method of slowing down an attacker. I think I will go get one of the 5 million CP ones and keep it next to the bed. I like the idea of blinding them while I grab the scattergun.
Hi. I’m the guy who bought the laser sight grip for his model 66. I keep it locked & empty, but with a speed loader nearby. The safe is not removable w/o removing major support beams from the house. I can open it in pitch black & load it in less than 15 seconds.
Kids? Yes, I have kids. And they both know to never touch that safe. The house? Well, the downstairs is generally a minefield of toys and I also have steps that creak very loudly. I’ll know its not a cat. I also don’t have expensive cars or expensive electronic equipment, so I know anyone coming in isn’t after money or financial gain. They’re either after my kids, my wife, or my life. The red dot I put at center-mass on them is exactly here a large hole is going to be punched if the intruder makes me even a 1/4 pound of nervous and most people will stop when they see it on them.
But can I pull the trigger? Well, even if my life meant nothing to me, letting him get by me means he’s free to rape, sodomize and murder my kids and my wife, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to sit on my hands and let that happen. And yes, I know about muzzle flash. I’ve practiced plenty that I know that I can ‘name that tune’ in one.
Range Instructor: “So what do you want…a Medal…?”
I think we should discuss the issues of law here.
The guy from Kentucky who couldn’t fire the gun at the burglar but instead smashed the burglar’s hand probably took the proper course of action from a legal point of view.
Instead, let’s imagine the guy from Kentucky decided to pump about a half-dozen 30.06 rounds into the burglar. What would the legal ramifications be? In court, wouldn’t the prosecutor say “Did you tell the burglar to leave?” and all that other foolishness which is so easy to suggest in a courtroom but is far removed from the actual situation.
I imagine this varies for each state, but just how much authority do each of us have to defend ourselves against an intruder?
(Whatever the answers might be, I’m still keeping my rifle loaded and easily available).
For now, California still has a semi-Castle doctrine. You are not obligated to retreat from a threat, and you can use lethel force to protect you and yours from a lethal, potentially lethal, or seriously damaging attack. You may not use lethal force to protect property. Inside the house gives you greater leeway than outside. You can’t blast away at someone on your porch, unless they pose an immediate lethal threat. In your house after dark…different story.
Me too. Gives me more time to choose which weapon I’ll be using. 
I have a few but the one I’d pick up first would probably be my Albion Crecy.
I’m not a lawyer nor offering legal advice at any point in this (or any other) posts.
We have the horribly mis-nicknamed “make my day law”. Essentially I understand it to mean: The homeowner (or apartment occupant, or whatever) is justified in using deadly force against an uninvited intruder that has or might commit a crime. Or something like that. Trying to look that law up is a pain since it’s been so sensationalized.
AFAIK, the onus is on the dead guy (or the DA) to prove that he A) Did not make an uninvited entry, and B) Did not and would not have committed a crime, rather than on the occupant to prove that they were in danger.
Generally, I think, once the person tries to flee or whatever, you are no longer authorized to use deadly force. The criminal has a right to break off the engagement, while the occupant does not have any obligation to attempt to do so. Shooting people in the back as they attempt to get away is bad - That’s vengeance rather than self-defense.
I don’t know how often this law has been used, but it seems that every couple of years someone does something that is on the ragged-edge of legal and we get national media attention for a while. Much of the debate has been about whether it covers just the house, the house and porch, the house, porch, and driveway, the entire property, etc.
One thing for sure (maybe not “for sure”, but my opinion), regardless of the jokes going around - dragging a dead body across the threshold so it looks like you shot an intruder in your home rather than a creep on the porch is tampering with evidence and probably will get you in more trouble than leaving it where it fell. They’ll know that you did it, and won’t be happy.
H&K USP .40. Thanks taxpayers!
Enfield No 2 MK1 circa 1942 .38
Quote from: ** constanze **
What I was trying to say that if you have somebody who has no training, and is in a panic situation, he might not shoot soon enough to have the weapon wrestled from him. (If you start shooting as soon as a shadow moves, you end up with the old “Homeowner shoots his own son” problem - I don’t have the cite for it, but some statistics said that much more people are killed by mistakes like this than actual robbers shot or deterred.)
And even if there’s a determination to shoot - how many people will hit accurately without training, taking into account things like recoil and darkness and excitment? So if the first shot doesn’t kill, the intruder can still take the weapon away.
(The other case is what you didn’t mention: if an alarm doesn’t wake you up first, you might be aiming at the first intruder while the second intruder stands already behind you. )
I have heard the statistic that 9 out of ten times that a home defense weapon is ever fired it is used against self or a family member. I am still a gun owner, because I have practiced a lot with my weapon of choice, I am aware of what a .357 Magnum round can do to the human body, and I am sure to inflict that damage only on an uninvited intruder.
I don’t have anything of great value, and I hope I will never have to fire to defend myself, but I will in a panic situation. I am still not at the level of being able to hit what I point at, but I am getting close. If the guns in my home are stolen while I am out, BFD, I am insured. If my wife is assaulted while I am home, I cannot feel as though I did all I could to protect her.
I don’t advocate gun ownership. The perfect world would be one in which I was the only gun owner. (Then I would take mine and secretly melt it down.) Until that happens, I will defend my home while I am there with the means I have available.
SGT Schwartz
Smarty pants! My giant freakin Marine says “.44 Ruger Super Blackhawk single action, originally with 81/2 inch barrel, now cut down to 51/4 inches. No sights, if you can’t hit it without sights at 50 feet, call someone who can.”
I don’t care – since I can’t lift the damn thing.
Yeah, only guy I know that can shoot faster and more accurately with a sightless SA revolver than most people can with… something else.
I’ve heard that this statistic is skewed to include use against abusers, by gang members and in drug deals. Usually, tho, it’s presented something like “the person most likely to shoot you or a family member with a gun already has the keys to your house” or “homeowner’s gun was 43 times more likely to kill a family member, friend, or acquaintence, than it was used to kill someone in self-defense”
But these numbers are usually at least as skewed as anything coming out of NRA would be assumed to be by the Brady Campaign. more
But this is the wrong thread for this, innit?
I used to collect old swords and bayonets, for various reasons I moved them to a lockup four years ago - I recently sold them.
Two years ago at 1:30am I was lying in bed reading, I heard a creak, looked out of my bedroom door and saw a burglar reaching into my jacket pocket.
I leapt out of bed and chased the swine out of the spare bedroom window, which was how he got in. Just missed the b/stards foot. He fell badly, but got away.
I now keep a 5" sheath knife under a pillow, and would have no qualms about using it.
In hindsight I’m glad that my collection was a mile away, if he had picked up a bayonet he would probably have been less scared of 6’1" of naked, raging, fury.
It is quite interesting how the adrenalin rush makes one react rather than think.
Big Dictionary, Iron (hot, she was ironing her blouse at the time), Stinky Shoe, another Stinky Shoe and Three School Books were thrown at Gramps by his five grandchildren, respectively, not because of gun laws… just because they were the closest things at hand whenever he happened to startle us.
Once, I was swimming in the public pool, a guy tried to do an “aguadilla” on me (drag me down unexpectedly, scaring me) and succeeded: he still has the five parallel scars from my nails. You can see which one is from the thumb because it’s shorter and a distance apart from the other four.
Another time, a classmate came at me from behind, wanting to do that cute “cuckoo! who am I?” thingee 
and took a few minutes to recover from that elbow to her stomach. My brain noticed what I was doing in time to keep me from causing serious damage to her head (which I’d turned around and grabbed).
I’m less dangerous when I’m not taken by surprise… but take me by surprise and I don’t need something that you have to think in order to use properly.