I notice you said that rich people can pay as much as they want for elective care. What about basic care? Are they allowed to jump the queue, see a private doctor or go to a private hospital? Depends on the country.
They can, and yet they tend not to because they don’t have to.
They cannot. In Canada, paying for basic care is illegal.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/27/nation/na-healthcare-canada27
So private health care in Canada is a lot like Uber.
Gee, you mean that all the working poor without insurance pre-ACA could have gotten Medicaid? That nobody ever had to choose between paying their rent and buying their medicine? Wow, why weren’t you called to testify to Congress in 2009 and tell them that there was no problem to solve?
People in single payer systems pay for medicine too. The whole point of ACA is that now we have a system like everyone else. Is it universal? No, but only because we still have the option to opt out. Everyone who wants health insurance now can get it. So aside from cost and forcing people to pay for health insurance(as in the real force, the kind with guns and stuff, not “penalties”, I’m not sure what single payer is supposed to fix.
We’ve been over this many times. Single payer is the minimum-overhead, minimum administrative bloat, minimum executive bonus etc. approach, therefore the minimum *cost *approach. Is getting rid of bloat a *good *thing for government and *bad *for the vaunted Private Enterprise that Republicans typically pretend to revere?
This is what you may end up, if you’re lucky; a tension between junior doctors dedicated to the system and yet worried about the terms of new contracts:
The Republicans are, many years later, converging on something. Give them credit. Nah. 
Which would be an improvement … how? Maybe we’ll find out when there’s an actual bill. If we get to read it.
Do the “working poor” still have to cover deductibles and co-pays under ACA?
Is health care under ACA really more “affordable” than before for the middle and upper-middle class? Hear plenty of reports that it is not. Possible that 4% of them might not vote D again next year?
Yes, it is infinitely more affordable if you get a serious illness. When people say health care is more expensive under ACA, what they really mean is that their premiums, deductibles, and/or co-pays are slightly higher.
But that only comes to, at most, a couple thousand a year, and only for people who can afford it, and only for people who don’t get sick.
But if you get a serious illness or injury, you save a ton under the ACA, because now your insurance company can’t jack up your rates, or refuse to cover you at all by citing some minor discrepancy when you filled out the forms, or limit how much they’ll pay when you max out your deductible. The vast majority of people who grumble about the ACA never had a serious illness, so they don’t realize how easy it was for the insurance companies to screw you.
I rarely get sick, and I pay a bit more now, but the difference to me is night and day, because before he ACA, there was literally NO WAY for me to budget my retirement, because I had no idea what I would have to lay out for medical bills. I have plenty of money for my normal expenses, but pre-ACA, I didn’t know how much of my savings I could spend, because I didn’t know what my insurance company might do if I got cancer ten years from now. Now, there’s a clear maximum out of pocket expense per year for me, and my insurance company can’t drop me or raise my premiums if I get sick, so it’s very easy to figure my expenses, and it’s well worth a few extra hundred a year to be able to do that.
Yeah, people are saying that. Most likely can be fixed.
You know who really likes the ACA? Middle class Moms. Moms who worry about their kids, being a bare majority of 99.9%. Moms who sent their kids to college to get their ticket to the middle class or better, kids that now are wandering around wondering where to cash it. Who didn’t have health insurance until that monster Obama. Moms that sleep better, worry just a bit less. Even Republican Moms are still Moms. Most all Dads are Republicans, but the good ones keep it in check.
Ever get something you never had, but kinda needed but did without? That moment when some guy senses something is wrong, somewhere, not percolating the energy like he should? Gets half way down the road to well, it’ll pass, probably nothing, gets really bad I can go to an emergency…and remembers that now, he can just go to the doctor. Get well.
Priceless.
Seems that all those health care insurers that were so opposed to Obamacare are now embracing it, as is Wall Street. So why are the Republicans attempting to repeal Obamacare and hurt America’s corporations?
Health Insurers Gain Under Obamacare - Zacks Equity Research
“Fewer Uninsured”, dammit. Not “less”.
Mitt Romney praises Obamacare, then immediately gets a hold of himself: http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/23/politics/mitt-romney-obamacare/index.html
People are talking about him, the momentum is building!
In 10 years they won’t bother with those lapel flag they’ll just get a tattoo across the forehead.
Fucking ridiculous for serious adults.
A mark on their forehead, you say? Hmmm. Heard something like that before, can’t quite put my finger on it…
Nonsense. I know of no single payer country in Europe where private care is illegal, or where there are any obstacles to obtaining it other than having the money or the insurance policy to pay for it. Yes, it’s about social solidarity - meaning making sure the care available is good enough for anyone to want to use it. And most do.
Canada does it.
Would that explain their recent display of rage and fury against liberal, big-government policies? And has Canada demanded admittance to the EU?