What lead to the Beatles ballad period?

[Leaffan]

@drad_dog

I think that the reason there were piano songs is that they were successful and they could do whatever the fuck they wanted.

Well, that has something at least to do with my post.

Their ambitions were bigger than being a “guitar band” as if that’s a thing that they were supposed to be. Not sure how that rule came about. It wouldn’t have applied to anyone else who had the ability.

I am the Walrus is a masterpiece. Too “weird”? Sorry I’ll take “weird” anytime. Music was an art form last I heard.

Eleanor Rigby is too. It’s known for being restrained, not overproduced. It doesn’t seem to have an outpouring of emotion in it at all.
Since we’re all using Wikipedia I’ll quote this:

Celebrated songwriter Jerry Leiber said: “The Beatles are second to none in all departments. I don’t think there has ever been a better song written than ‘Eleanor Rigby’.”[38]

And this has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

[Doug_K]

@Common_Tater

Well no, it wasn’t, that’s the point. It was a fingerstyle guitar tune. That’s how it was created. You could look it up, but that’s what happened if the guy who wrote it can be believed.

That doesn’t contradict that when it was fleshed out into a complete song it was arranged to be played by the entire band, including the violin player.

[drad_dog]

@Leaffan

Well, that has something at least to do with my post.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

Sorry. I was responding to the thread, not to you personally, after line 1.

[kenobi_65]

@drad_dog

He wouldn’t have had the nerve. Lennon hit the wall creatively and never had the chance to get back as it were. He knew Paul was kicking his ass around the block all through the 70s. (He was a fan of “Coming Up” I’m pretty sure)

I had actually just been reading about “Coming Up” the other day; the Wikipedia article on the song includes this bit:

Former band-mate John Lennon liked the song and credited it for driving him out of retirement to resume recording.

Somebody asked me what I thought of Paul's last album and I made some remark like I thought he was depressed and sad. But then I realized I hadn't listened to the whole damn thing. I heard one track - the hit, 'Coming Up,' which I thought was a good piece of work. Then I heard something else that sounded like he was depressed.
— John Lennon, *All We Are Saying*, 1980

I heard a story from a guy who recorded with John in New York, and he said that John would sometimes get lazy. But then he'd hear a song of mine where he thought, 'Oh, shit, Paul's putting it in, Paul's working!' Apparently 'Coming Up' was the one song that got John recording again. I think John just thought, 'Uh oh, I had better get working, too.' I thought that was a nice story.
— Paul McCartney

[I_Love_Me_Vol.I]

@Common_Tater

Another example that comes to mind, is Dust In The Wind by Kansas. It’s a nice fingerstyle guitar song, a member of Kansas had a practice warmup tune he’d mess around with on his acoustic and his wife said that would make a good song. But somebody decided to add all those sappy violins, and just sort of ruins it. I like classical music, but strings and horns get added on to pop tunes is just wrong.

I disagree about Dust In the Wind. That’s not the normal example of string sections filling out a pop song to make it schmaltzier. The violin starts out in more of a fiddle style that’s sometimes used in that type of music and I think by Kansas in general.

It builds to several violins and some other strings (cello, I think) but it’s more like a subdued, folk-like string quartet and the song comes by it organically–not as some zealous producer’s attempt to own the song with sappiness.

[Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil]

@astorian

Every now and then, I’d wish John was around to sneer, “Wott’s this Pipes of Peace crap, then? Ya want me to kick yer bleedin’ arse, Paul? Go back and write something GOOD, you wanker!”

It depends. The lyrics are a bit naïve and feel-good, but I rarely listen to pop music in order to get a deep understanding of the human condition. The melody and harmonies, however, are beautiful. When in doubt, I whistle so that my appreciation of a song isn’t parasited by the words. In the case of Pipes of Peace, the melody is really, really nice.

I feel the same about Once upon a Long ago, another song in which the lyrics may be a bit sappy, but just whistle that melody !

[LLCoolL]

@Common_Tater

Paul is great, a phenomenal musician and tunesmith. But some of his songs are a little too sappy, saccharine or overwrought. Eleanor Rigby comes to mind. Blech. Good lord, what dreck. …

What?! Eleanor Rigby rules.

“Eleanor Rigby, died in the church
And was buried along with her name
Nobody came
Father McKenzie, wiping the dirt
From his hands as he walks from the grave
No one was saved”

That’s pretty darn cynical. The opposite of sappy. Hmmph…

[Leaffan]

Yeah, not to mention where she keeps her face.

Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk

[Doug_K]

I hate this notion (usually coming from non-musicians) that music has to be “edgy” or angry* or cynical to be taken seriously. Music can be about any and all emotions, whether it be anger, sadness, joy, and yes, even sappiness.

• I remember not being able to put my finger on why I can’t stand Celine Dion until I watched her performing To Love You More live on some show and realized that it’s because she just exudes anger in everything she sings, even if the lyrics don’t call for it. She was literally grimacing and shaking her fist while singing what was supposed to be a love song.

[up_the_junction]

Lennon and McCartney went through a few key relationships during the mid-late 60s. Your writing is influenced by your life - both the ups and the downs.

All it means is The Beatles didn’t have a genre, they just did everything all the time.

@LLCoolL

What?! Eleanor Rigby rules.

“Eleanor Rigby, died in the church
And was buried along with her name
Nobody came
Father McKenzie, wiping the dirt
From his hands as he walks from the grave
No one was saved”

That’s pretty darn cynical. The opposite of sappy. Hmmph…

FFS. It’s social commentary; the loneliness of social isolation and perhaps depression. Loneliness even in the ritual of burial. Melancholia permeates every single aspect of the creation.

[Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil]

@Doug_K

I hate this notion (usually coming from non-musicians) that music has to be “edgy” or angry* or cynical to be taken seriously. Music can be about any and all emotions, whether it be anger, sadness, joy, and yes, even sappiness.

I completely agree with you on this.

I’m perfectly fine with sappiness and naivety; they have their place in music, and arts in general. I was pointing out that while there are people who may put off by the lyrics (I’m not), it’s difficult to question to the quality of the melodies and harmonies in those two songs.

[kaylasdad99]

@digs

And the answer to “When did Paul McCartney write Silly Love Songs?” … [spoiler]Survey says…

1963-2017[/spoiler]

…and what’s wrong with that?

[kaylasdad99]

Totally apart from whether the question makes sense: What LED to the Beatles’ ballad period?

“Lead” is never a past-tense verb.

[DooWahDiddy]

@kaylasdad99

Totally apart from whether the question makes sense: What LED to the Beatles’ ballad period?

“Lead” is never a past-tense verb.

I was going to mention that, but I figured I would led it be.