There was a recently closed thread about the Battle Of The Plains Of Abraham which started off fairly educational and then it turned rather unpleasant. It turns out there are still a few people in Quebec pissed off about the outcome of a battle that was fought 250 years ago, and wasn’t that Epic as far as battles went in the first place. And not just a bit miffed, we’re talking Angry Letters To The Editor about the insensitivity of wanting to stage a re-enactment and general political lobbying to (successfully) get the event cancelled.
Now, most reasonable people would assume that an event which happened 250 years ago is near enough to Ancient History to make no real difference, and whatever residual unhappiness about the outcome would have abated by now (250 years ago, for example, the US War of Independence was still some time in the future, Australia was still largely a blank spot on the map somewhere near the Dutch East Indies, the East India Company had the monopoly on Tea being shipped to the UK, and selling Opium was seen as a legitimate Government business interest). We are, in short, talking about a Really Long Time Ago.
So, besides the Battle Of The Plains Of Abraham, are there any other Wars or Battles from A Really Long Time Ago that a significant and/or vocal minority of people are still pissed off about the outcome of?
The only one I can readily think of off the top of my head is the Battle Of The Boyne in Ireland, but I am sure there are others… anyone got any candidates?
I don’t get why Muslims would be so upset over the Crusades. They won, didn’t they? And couldn’t it be argued that the Crusades only represented a counterattack amid a far more aggressive, long-lasting and partially successful incursion by Muslim armies into Europe?
So what’s all the hubbub, Bub?
And to the OP: I hear tell that Oliver Cromwell still has something of a bad rep in some quarters.
A lot of places that are still upset about something hundreds of years ago see it as a moment in a long history of such slights. In the Balkans, for example, there have been conflicts and arguments that go back hundreds of years, but also have fresh incidents to keep the hatred alive. The battle of Kosovo for example is still talked about by both sides, but in the context of incidents from the recent past.
I’m sure there are American Indians who are still upset about their treatment from the past (I know I would be).
The African American community still resents slavery (again, with good reason). Granted, it only ended in the 1800s.
I see someone has already posted the American civil war. Some southerners still get their ass in a clench over that one. Actually, I remember being taught in my history classes (SC coast) in the lower grades about how the civil war was not really about slavery, but rather the southern way of life.
Cromwell’s conquest of Ireland also gets people rather pissy.
The Imjin War. The Koreans won, and there was a 300 year gap between the war and the later annexation of Korea, but Koreans still have passionate feelings towards the war and Hideyoshi.
I should probably clarify: For the puposes of this thread, anything from 1800 onwards is not considered “A Really Long Time Ago”. So the US Civil War is out, as is the Indian Mutiny, the Spanish-American War, and so on.
The Imjin War is an excellent example of the sort of thing I’m talking about- centuries ago, but people have strong feelings about it today.
The Battle of Kosovo (Battle of Kosovo - Wikipedia) in 1389 is important to many Serbians as part of their national identity. In 1989, Milosevic made a speech on the spot that was the launch of a nationalist campaign.
The 1410 Battle of Tannenburg/Grunwald had some nationalistic resonance at least in the late Prussian/early German era. A German victory early in WW I was given the same name despite being fought some distance from the original cite, as a symbolic reversal of that perceived original triumph of East over West. Probably fair to say it hasn’t been quite so significant since at least the end of WW II.
For the celebrations of the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar the mock battle was fought between Red and Blue teams (as opposed to British and French/Spanish), but if I remember right that was more about trying not to cause offense in the first place than after an offended reaction.
The battle of Kosovo, fought in 1389, has regained major significance for Serbians, Kosovars and Albanians in recent years, and has served as a mainstay for Serbian nationalism over the last 150 or so years. Milošević invoked it in a renowned if infamous speach in 1989 for the occasion of the battle’s 600th anniversary.
Was actually just watching a program about Oliver Cromwell in Ireland last night. The massacres at several towns along with the treatment of the Irish after the war, “To Hell or to Connaught”, still are used by a fairly small number of people as a stick to beat the English with. Cromwell is still quite a hated figure in Ireland.
Throw in some people up north still going on about the Battle of the Boyne and the whole history of the English in Ireland is still used by a number of people as a motivation to hate another community.
The defeat of the Danish army to the Prussian Hun army in 1864 during the Second Schleswig War. Every Dane know of this. It still played an important part in the recent Danish involvement in the Iraq and Afghan wars.
Interesting, but outside the timeframe under discussion (The cut-off date is 1800). The mid-19th century wasn’t all that long ago when you think about it, which is why it’s outside the scope of the OP…
Years ago I saw a history programme, IIRC presented by Michael Wood, where the presenter was in Iran, talking to a minority religious/ethnic group who were still pissed off at what Alexander the Great had done to them.
Sorry I don’t have more details but still… holding a grudge for 2300+ years is pretty impressive.
Not quite so chronologically far back, but there’s still enmity (mostly good-natured) between Yorkshire and Lancashire over the War of the Roses (1453-1487 according to Wikipedia).
And of course most Irish people don’t have a good word to say about Oliver Cromwell (d. 1658).
I’ve gotta’ chime on on the American Civil War also. With the amount of simmering resentment and fierce nationalism/regionalism still in evidence, a stranger to the southern US would imagine that the war was fought just last year.
I was under the impression that the Boyne was a matter of concern for those North (and East) of the border when marching season comes upon us and some Catholics are reminded of the outcome by a few Protestants.
Go South (and West) of the border and the Irish Civil War seems to invoke more bitter feelings between Irish folk.
