So movies which feature Santa Claus killing people as he goes around delivering presents are not
Christmas movies? Seems like a contradictory excuse to not call Die Hard a Christmas movie.
It’s A Wonderful Life is something of an edge case, in my opinion. The basic trope of “man surveys what might have been” could have been at any other season than Christmas, but Christmas adds depth to the angel subplot (indeed it depends on a Christmas tree at the end). It also adds some punch to the emotional extremes of love and desperation that George feels. So I would argue that Christmas, while not totally a requirement, does add a lot of the emotional and supernatural valence to the movie.
Contrast that with Die Hard, where all the Christmas references are throwaway gags that could have easily been rewritten for a different holiday, or the main character’s birthday, or no specific season at all.
Yes, good. The Theme is Christmas.
So, No to Diehard (altho it is a classic and can certainly be watched during Christmas once you get tired of the treacle) . No to It’s a Wonderful Life. (same comment, but it is somewhat treacly at times)
Maybe to Bell Book and Candle but it fails that last. Maybe to Lion in Winter. I’d say no.
Yes to A Christmas Story, even tho it isnt 100% Christmas. Yes to Christmas Vacation.
Yes, but he could be there to reconcile during any other day, like their anniversary- or new years. Could be a New Years party, etc, means less people, etc. You are correct it is at least as Christmassy as It’s a Wonderful Life. But I disqualified that also.
Perhaps we could discuss other films other than Die Hard?
We have covered It’s a Wonderful Life, but there is also Gremlins, Lion in Winter, Bell ,Book & Candle, Batman Returns, and Holiday Inn. Maybe even White Christmas!
Amusingly, the director of Die Hard indicated that he used It’s a Wonderful Life as inspiration for Die Hard and John McClain as a George Bailey figure.
I think IAWL very easily could lose the Christmas elements - not hard to picture it at Easter for example. More so than Die Hard, which at the very least is very Christmas steeped (as mentioned above has 50 references to Christmas in it’s runtime).
I do think those who exclude both have a better argument than picking and choosing one or the other on whims, but I think it’s still a silly gatekeep to exclude either.
White Christmas can indeed be very easily completely told without Christmas if you wanted to do so.
Disclaimer: I’m one of the not-Die Hard folk in the thread. I can actually agree that IAWL is also not a Christmas movie, but it is deeply religious movie. If not the most religious “secular” movie. The God of the New Testament exists and is the one true God. Forget non-fans of Christmas movies - can Jews and Muslims enjoy the movie?
Holiday Inn is no more a Christmas movie than it is a Thanksgiving movie, or a New Years Eve movie, or a Lincoln’s Birthday film (and if you’ve seen it, you know why that’s a good thing!). The ONLY thing is has to put it in that category is the song White Christmas. The plot in no way connects to, or is dependent on, Christmas.
To the question: is 1995s Home For the Holidays a Christmas movie? No one seems to mention it in the list of favorite holiday movies. But it has more to do with Christmas than Die Hard.
I chose to put this thought in a separate post, as it is a long question…
What about Christmas-themed TV series episodes? They tend to get overlooked, mostly because its hard to show one episode of a show to an audience that may have never seen any episodes.
If a show does a Christmas episode that is a parody/homage to either A Christmas Carol or IAWL, do they count? Steve Austin using his bionic powers to convince a curmudgeonly CEO the error of his ways - Christmas or not?
Simon and Simon spreading Christmas cheer in Las Vegas - Christmas or no?
The Riptide episode where the leads carry a deceased soldier home to be buried at Christmas. Yea or nay?
Homer being shown by his guardian angel Col Klink how the world would be different were he never born?
And in the spirit of Die Hard, how about Briuce Willis as a dective who encounters Mary, Joseph, three wise men, the baby Andrew (huh?), and the episode ends with a fourth wall-breaking Christmas miracle?
Umm, Angels are part of the OT and the Koran. So- yes.
But Jesus isn’t. Nor Mary and Joseph. Nor is Christmas.
Though Christian angels aren’t supposed to “earn” their wings. Angels aren’t humans who’ve had a promotion. That’s a corruption of scripture. But American Christians don’t seem to care.
People redefined It’s a a wonderful Life as a Christmas movie long before Die Hard was released. I never thought of it as one, since I first saw it in August. It does have a better claim to it, though.
Because it was a great film … in the public Domain.
I never said it was one. It’s a horror/slasher movie.
Is Christmas in July a Christmas movie? Of course not, even though “Christmas” is right there in the title.
How about Mame?
The song “We Need a Little Christmas” is from Mame– where it makes sense, in context. But only a small portion of the movie happens at Christmas; the movie actually spans many years, and shows highlights.
Some TV station has been running Black Christmas over and over again-- the original, with Margot Kidder. Is that a Christmas movie? Of course, another station is running Fiddler on the Roof, which is pretty un-Christmassy, except maybe compared to Schindler’s List.
Oddly, I haven’t seen a lick of The Bells of St. Mary’s, or the Reginald Owen Christmas Carol. What’s up with that? The movies and TV specials are what I like about the relentless season of mirth.
Note that the song specifically says it’s not Christmas, and it specifically says it’s being sung before Thanksgiving (in a time when the you didn’t see Christmas ads that Early).
I think we’re arguing the same side-- albeit, I thought it was sung “just one week past Thanksgiving,” during the Great Depression, a time when Christmas didn’t start in November, and maybe a week before the day, at most.
I was a 70s kid (b. 1967), and in my childhood, I don’t really remember it starting until about two weeks before. Maybe I wasn’t paying attention, since we didn’t celebrate it, but I’m sure there was no such thing as “Black Friday.”
I was just reiterating your point.
I do remember it not beginning until after Thanksgiving. Remember, FDR moved Thanksgiving a week earlier to lengthen the Christmas shopping season (it was changed back two years later). That thinking continued into the 70s: Thanksgiving was the start of the Christmas season (Miracle on 34th Street shows that).
Slight digression here, but it is my own thread. Black Friday may originally have been a term used by the police in Philadelphia for the traffic and crowd problems that occured on that major shopping day and the explanation of red and black ink used in accounting made up afterwards.
Either way, it is a concept and term that goes back pretty far down in the 20th century. I don’t know how many stores ever managed to operate without a profit until the start of the Christmas shopping season but it’s not hard to imagine the large metropolitan department stores operating that way. That is not to say they operated at a serious loss throughout the year either, many businesses for various reasons may not show a profit on the books until the end of the year.
So, I think your opinion of “what makes a movie a Christmas movie” is going to be influenced by what you think it important about Christmas.
If you think Christmas is really about the birth of Jesus, well, I guess “The Little Drummer Boy” counts.
If you think it’s about “The spirit of Christmas”, peace on earth and good will towards all mankind, then “It’s a wonderful life” is a fine Christmas movie. So’s “A Christmas Carol”, which doesn’t feature anything about Jesus, as best as I can remember.
If you think it’s a winter festival, then “Frosty the Snowman” counts. If you emphasize presents and Santa then “Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer” is a terrific Christmas movie, and even the weirdly materialistic “Klaus” is obviously a Christmas movie.
If you think it’s about cultural touchstones, the carols, the busy shops, …, then Die Hard is a fine Christmas movie. Even though it really doesn’t cut it to the “Christmas Spirit” types.
And I think that’s the source of the divide.
Can’t remember if it shows up in any of the movies, but in the book, after Bob Cratchitt and Tim come back from church and Tim goes off with his siblings, Bob tells his wife that Tim had said that he “…hoped the people saw him in the church, because he was a cripple, and it might be pleasant to them to remember upon Christmas Day, who made lame beggars walk and blind men see.”