Well that does suggest that Wikipedia is inaccurate about which people Tay-Sachs most often attacks, but it still suggests that it attacks certain populations more than others, proving that certain genes are more abundant among some populations than others. But I don’t see the point, since it’s obvious there are genotypic differences between populations and races.
Absolutely correct!
I think it’s incredulous to deny that there is such a thing as African-American (as in American blacks decended from slaves) culture. Since moving to Oakland I’ve run in to countless businesses peddling things I’ve never heard of, but which would probably all make perfect sense if I grew up Black in a Black neighborhood. It just dawned on me that my American dream story of my ancestors coming to these shores to seek their fortunes is outright foreign to a lot of people- their ancestors were kidnapped and dragged to these shores to work our fields. Even something as fundamental as what it means to be American can be very different among different American populations.
It’s not that Black people are worse or all the same or anything, but that for the most part- like any segregated (de facto or de jure) group in America they have developed their own American culture. This cultures is just as lively and legitimate and important as mainstream American culture. And occasionally we want to refer to this cultures. We need a word to do so. And I have no problem with letting them pick the word.
Interesting conversation here, one in which I have thought about contributing to, but I have to ask “for what purpose?” There is a significant part of the OP that is very important to me, but the nature of discussions on this board at times tends to ignore the fact that some issues aren’t simply “academic” to members of this community. So I’m not interested in the “Charlize Theron is African American” type statements that brickbacon alluded to… hell, in fact, brickbacon made this point much better that I am!
snailboy seems on one hand to be expressing genuine curiousity, but also states that he is adamant on calling people names of his own choosing. That’s kind of how we got into the mess to begin with…
A number of sociologists and anthropologists have made compelling arguments about the myth of race, or at least the emphasis of a biological separation of peoples rather than political or socioeconomic differences. Ashley Montagu, Stephen Jay Gould, and Roger Sanjek are some of the more well-known researchers in this area. Academics have also made statements invoking scientific proof of this fact - see here, for instance, to read the American of Anthropological Association’s take on the matter.
I’m from Texas, and on occasion I have had conversations or overheard conversations where dated terms are being used, like “negro” and “colored.” I’m not making this up! Like several posters have mentioned, I believe intent is what causes me offense. In the situations I speak of, I knew that the speakers were unfamiliar with African American or Black people, so I didn’t go crazy or cuss them out. I heard their point, commented on what they had said, and added, “Most people use the terms African American or Black today. The word you used is potentially insulting to many people, so you might want to switch to that one of those instead.” The response I received was an apology and an expression of gratitude for “filling her in.”
But I’m one Black/African American person, and I don’t think or expect others should or would do as I did. I also was in a collegiate setting at the time. If I’m on the street somewhere, I might not be as forgiving or understanding… and I know a lot of folks who will probably take a swing at you to “educate” you on what words are offensive, and which are not.
baronsabato, I thought you presented an excellent explanation of why the term “Asian American” is preferred by many today. Yan Espiritu writes about Pan-Asian movements in the Western US in the 1960s and 1970s, and notes that similar to African Americans and Latinos (Chicanos and Mexican Americans, especially) at the time, the desire to self-identify, mobilize, and unite to improve political power explains why Chinese Americans, Japanese Americans, and other nationalities started to use the term. Of course you will find people who don’t give a damn one way or the other from these exact groups. I have friends of all the groups mentioned here who aren’t bothered one way or the other. I have others who do.
Askia, as usual you make good points, but I would argue that the “native African American” perspective is often divisive as viewed by West Indians. Guess who is half Jamaican and African American? There’s often an assumption that slaves in other parts of North America didn’t catch hell like Black folks here did - and obviously, the “peculiar institution” of slavery and Jim Crow is a very American, very unique tragedy. It does us little good, however, to fall into the camps of expressing who is more oppressed and who “got off easy.” Mary Waters’ Black Identities presents cases of West Indian immigrants who work jobs that US-born African Americans shun because they have no other opportunities. In many ways they get it from both sides.
I’m also shooting you the stank eye, because I don’t know what was going through your head with the “Jamaican rasta” comment. Anyway…
I’m also at a loss as to why some people seem to believe that they are exempt from making an occasional error or causing unintentional offense, and learning from it. In the examples I mentioned above, the people I spoke with were glad to learn something that would facilitate their future conversations about “race” and didn’t take offense to understanding how their language was potentially incindiary. That’s the wonder of exploring difference; no-one is an expert and no-one is exempt from learning. I study “race.” I make money facilitating workshops about “race.” But I always preface my work by stating that I am not an expert - just someone who has studied and thought a lot about the topic.
Case in point - in high school I made a reference to somebody being a “redneck.” A teacher asked me what I meant by the statement, and took the time to explain to me that many Southern Whites took offense to that word - herself included. Guess what? I don’t use that word anymore, even though I hear it bandied about all the time by Whites (think Jeff Foxworthy). There are other ways to describe people that are specific to individuals and are not harmful to others. My life hasn’t been significantly disrupted from a little learning!
Hopefully this conversation can continue in a positive direction, with everyone accepting the fact that we can all learn from one another… (flowers and peace signs everywhere…)
No matter what someone calls a native American…redskin or Indian…if he is a good guy, I like him…if he is a bad guy, I don’t like him.
Same is true with African-American, Negro, or a Black person.
My point is that we should not be insulted if someone uses a demeaning term for any of us…He/she is the schmuck, not us. To be insulted by ignorant people is a waste of time for the recipient of the remark.
-
Hey, Hippy. I wondered where you’d been lately.
-
I wasn’t trying to be divisive, just acknowledging some cultural differences, current histories and attitudes I learned about (and learned from) immigrant African peoples and West Indians I went to college with, or dated here in Atlanta. Now, I’ve been guilty in the past of playing the “who had it worst” game with white folks on SDMB, but I would ne-ee–eever do that with black immigrants.
-
I guess black folks from everywhere have to make a decision about their degree of assimilation in America.
-
I probably deserve that stank eye, because I can see where it might be construed as hygiene comment. But I was really remembering of the ganja smell wafting under the dorm doors from the off-campus Rasta crew whenever they hung out. I still don’t know where they scored that shit they were smoking – In Orangeburg, South Carolina of all places – because the dippy-ass homegrown marijuana-for-beginners shit the rest of the weed-puffers on campus had to make do with never gave me an intense contact high like theirs did. I could get fucked up by the smell sunk deep in their clothes if they just walked by.
what up Askia, I see you made that move to the ATL!
-
Been around, just purposively choosing what conversations to involve myself in. Like I said earlier, I’m not jumping into every “race” thread because I think sometimes on the SDMB, people like to discuss this issue as if it’s purely academic and abstract, where I feel it is real and at times painful to discuss. I’m not going to open up and share those feelings if there’s not a forward moving discussion…
-
I don’t disagree with your analysis. I know many African and West Indian folks who think they are very different from “native Black” people. But at 11 pm, when you’re pulled over on the side of a highway in Mississippi, we’re all just Black. Most people get that. It is a political identity, perhaps, more than an ethnic identity, as I use it here.
-
Interesting article. It reminds me of a situation at school where I was asked to come to a student residence to help facilitate a discussion. The African American students were first-generation Americans, the upwardly mobile sons and daughters of African immigrants. This record of achievement, however, earned them little recognition or insulation from racism. Not having your voice heard at an Ivy League institution is a different kind of challenge than avoiding housing discrimination, but these students argued that their experiences with prejudice were real and painful.
-
…well, I can’t deny that that’s a feature of Rastafarianism…
Hippy Hollow. I escaped from Columbus, that’s for sure – but Stone Mountain ain’t Atlanta, maaa-aaan. I gotta drive eight miles in heavy traffic to get to I-285 to get to I-20 to get me another seven miles to what I consider to be Atlanta. There’s too much damned nature and quiet where I live. Blech.
This used to be Klan territory and latent Confederacy Central. I am astounded by all the black folks out here now.
-
I feel you.
-
It was a wake-up to me, Mr. Naive Pan-African Nationalist, when I first heard some really outspoken West Indians talk about African-Americans like we were people to avoid being lumped in with – but they have a point. By every measure of success, from earned college degrees to improved health issues to income earned, black immigrants do better than African-Americans as a group. I agree no cop in Mississippi (or even Bensonhurst) will care to parse the difference, but they deserve to hold on to their cultural distinctiveness just as we do ours.
-
Hmm. Prejudices from institutional racism is something I’ve personally never really encountered, though I’ve heard plenty anecdotes from my friends in corporate America.
-
Right. That said, I am aware not every Jamaican smokes pot.
In my humble opinion … In ten years in the Army, if you’re white and call someone a nigger, you were a racist. ON THE OTHER HAND … if you you were black and called someone a cracker, you were a racist.
In other words, it all depends on WHO is saying it and why. If I, (being white), called my next door neighbor a nigger, (since he’s a black guy), or if he called me a white trash piece of shit (since I’m a white guy), then we’d both be racist’s by the common understanding of the words.
Seriously, a racist word is ONLY a racist word if both parties that HEAR the word agree that it’s a racist word.
The people that insist that ANY word is, by default, a racist word, are complete and utter morons.
Since when did two people with valid opinions need to come to an agreement before deciding something is racist?
I suspect you and I would react very differently hearing someone describe black kids climbing trees, “A bunch of little monkeys.” You’d probably think they were being descriptive and complimentary while I would in all honestly – however fleetingly – wonder if they were being condescending and racist.
He might mean that racism is present only if there is intent to be racist and it’s recognized. But I agree with you that that’s not so.