Maybe. But it still seems reasonable to me that the One with the final word on who is and who isn’t is Christ.
I believe in love. All those who believe in love are Hoodooists.
That would be true if you ARE love.
My own experience is that the more of the Bible one believes as literal, the less likely they are to behave as Christian.
Peace
r~
A definition of “Christian” which is only acceptable to someone calling himself a Christian is not a satisfactory definition.
(That would be providing there’s any truth to any of it, of course)
It’d be nice if he let someone know they were beating a path to the wrong door.
He may have the last word, but he could save everyone a lot of time and trouble if he’d just be a little clearer about everything.
What isn’t clear? “And now a new commandment I give to you: love one another.” — Jesus
Let me just say, though, that I do understand why you would say what you say. But I honestly believe that whatever obfuscation there is comes from men who seek to control other men throught the politics of religion. When I hear Jimmy Swaggart say something, and when I read what He Himself said (as you say, assuming it’s accurate) — I honestly do not recognize that they are even saying the same thing.
Yet Jimmy Swaggart and the like have millions of followers who are, indeed, Christians. What would you say to them? And why doesn’t Jesus say anything to them if they’re following the wrong path?
You’re right… Obfuscation is man-made. As is religion. If there’s a god, and if he cares one way or the other about how we treat each other, you’d think he’d at least get people clearly pointed in the right direction.
He does. And I would say the same thing to them that He said. I referenced it in my first post, but I’ll give you the full context here:
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ — Matthew 7:21-23
I think He does. But each in his own time and in his own way. We are, after all, all as unique as He.
…Not.
I call them desciples of the anti-Christ. What makes you think they (would) listen?
Peace
r~
Being a humanist, I don’t believe there is a god that cares or controls or does anything with anything or anyone. An antichrist simply doesn’t exist any more than christ as son of god does.
what you seem to be asking is for someone who is a Christian to abandon the Christian worldview in defining themselves for you.
Christians do differ on how much “assurance of salvation” they think you can ever really have; some feel rather confident, based on communication with God, via prayer, Scripture, etc, while Liberal falls rather in the “you can never be sure” end of the spectrum. Nonetheless, they all would agree that it is only the the Almighty himself who is qualified to make the final judgement as to who shall be saved.
Might I suggest a seperation of terms?
**The Elect ** refers to those people whom God graciously chooses to save. Many of them are Christians, but by no means all, and (depending on one’s theology) perhaps not even most. Certainly David, the “man after God’s own heart” was not a Christian, nor Josiah nor Noah nor any other Old Testament figure. Melchizadek and possibly Job were not Israelites. And the idea of the “righteous pagan” is by no means a fringe idea. C.S. Lewis for one thought that way (though I don’t think that many people who quote him nowadays know that). They are true followers of Christ, and only he knows their identity. Generally, though not always, they can be identified by their “fruit”; conduct including but not limited to love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self-control.
**Christians ** refers to the adherents of a religion that arose in first-century Palestine. Some of them believe in it sincerely and through it enter into a relationship with God. Some of them give it some degree of intellectual assent, but do not enter into a a relationship with God. For this group, I suggest a general adherence to the ancient creeds (Apostle’s, Nicea, etc.) as the best arbiter of membership.
Thank you, Furt! The problem with this thread is that the original question can be taken as either a linguistic or a theological question.
What makes someone a Christian?
He must be a believer.
Hebrews 11:6 If someone doesn’t believe in God, he cannot please God, because the person who comes to God MUST believe that He lives. That person must also believe that God will give rewards to the people who are searching for Him.
He must repent or turn away from past sins/sinning.
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
He must confess belief in the Christ.
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
He must be immersed in water for remission of (past) sins.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Acts 22:16 Now, don’t wait any longer. Rise up, get yourself immersed and get your sins washed away, trusting in his name.´
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 6:4 So, through immersion, we were buried with him into death. Christ was raised from death through the glory of the Father. In the same way, we will live a new life.
He must remain faithful unto death.
Revelation 2:10… Be faithful, even if you must die. I will give you the crown of life.
No short cuts, no simple affirmation of belief without the above being taken care of. If you wish to argue the necessity of any of the above you will have to argue your case at judgement.
Do you believe/understand spirits?
Spoken as a True Pharisee.
Too many know the Words but not the Spirit.
May you find the Peace you Seek.
r~
Whoa, Nellie! 
I thought your post was very insightful overall, Furt, but I do want to correct the record here. Somehow, I got pinned to the diametric opposite of the views I hold. 
I’m most definitely not at the “never sure” end. In fact, I believe that even the universe itself is not as sure as our salvation. And I firmly do not believe that God will judge anyone at all, because Jesus teaches that neither He nor His Father will judge us.
Christian (def): Someone who by chance, or especially by intent, nurtures the Spirit in Other(s).
anti-Christian (def): Someone who, especially by belief, harms the Spirit of an Other.
pharisees: Yes, I just made it up. I do not believe that makes it less True.
r~
Well how do you know if your a Christian?
- When you tell people of their need for Jesus Christ.
If you have never done so I would say you are not a Christian no matter what you may think of your self. For it how Christianity spread from its very begining.
- When you can remember what it was like when you were lost. And tell others of the hope that is within you…
My two cents…
That would be more to my definition of a messenger if invited, a zealot if not. I would still consider it anti-Christian if the message, however well intentioned, diminished the Spirit of an other. (I admit I Am sensitive about this issue.)
I stand. I see your two cents and raise you two more.
r~