I’ve always been a mild fan of F1, and understand that the beasts are not even aspirated. I did a little bit of research about what makes them so fast, and came up with some sort of pneumatic valve timing system. Is there anyone else out there that can better inform me of what makes thesese cars so fast.
Short answer: They have 800+ hp, and weigh just 1100 lbs. They are also pushing the technological envelope in every possible way (i.e. they have the absolute best tyres, brakes, engines, etc…) and no expense is spared. This also makes them the most expensive race cars in the world (Ferrari is spending an estimated US$400 million this year just to field its two cars in 17 races, for example).
I can elaborate more about specific technologies later, if you have more questions and nobody else beats me to it.
BTW, The pneumatic valve system in the engines is used because they turn too fast (on the order of 18,000+ rpm) for mechanical valves to keep up.
Let me just say – Holy shit! $400 MILLION?!
I understand the value of sponsoring racing as it relates to marketing and all that, but how can Ferrari afford to drop that much dough into F1? Hell, I seriously doubt they do that much business each year. Am I missing something, here?
Ferrari is not in F1 to make money, they are in F1 to win championships. When you combine the money they get from sponsorship as well as whatever money they get as prize money from F1 itself, it probably allows them to break even, or at least come close to it each year.
Sadly, F1 racing has become as full of bullshit as most other professional sports. Sunday, the lead driver (ferarri’s #2 guy) pulled over and almost stopped, to let the 2nd place driver (ferarri’s #1) pass him and win.
Why? He was ordered to do it by the team, so that the #1 driver could get the points and extend his lead by a bit.
If it were up to me, both drivers and the team would be DQ’d from all races for the remainder of the year. Every driver should be out there to do everything he can to win every single race. Blocking and throwing races to preserve the team leader’s standing is shit.
The worst part is that they didn’t throw a few seconds in the pit, or gradually ease back over a period of a couple laps. He f-ing pulled over in the final straight of the final lap.
Sorry for the hijack.
F1 cars go fast because of their engines: three-liter V10s that rev over 18,000rpm and weigh less than 100kg (This is a very small-bore engine; modern V8s run around five liters, and my Dad’s '69 Charger SE had a seven-liter V8).
An F1 gearbox has six or seven gears which change automatically; the clutch is operated electronically by the complicated gearbox software.
There’s nothing special about the fuel; the cars are exceedingly aerodynamic, with front and rear wings to add stability; the wheels are very light, the tires are designed to aerodynamically interact with the rest of the car.
For all that though, aren’t Indy cars faster?
Oh, and they’re normally aspirated.
Forgive my gross ignorance but, what’s the difference between an F1 car and an Indy car? I just thought that F1’s were also called Indy cars because they raced in Indianapolis. Which one was in the movie Driven? (I couldn’t even sit through the whole movie but that’s the mental picture I’m getting.)
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/cosworth/274/field_guide.html
This website might be of some use looking for some of the basic distinctions among open wheel cars.
I don’t remember the differences, but Indycars are different, and F1 cars are the faster & more maneuverable cars. I remember being depressed when I found out F1 was faster than Indy, but let’s face it - those things are frigging fast!
F1 cars are the fastest track cars in the world bar none. Watching a race can be as fun as watching paint dry though. Its the worlds fastest parade. There is almost no passing. Combine the fact that everybody else in the world loves F1 and Soccer (futball or whatever) I conclude that the rest of the world likes their sports boring. I’m suprised curling hasnt caught on in Europe yet.
dead0man
I think that during race conditions, CART and IRL (Indy) cars have a higher top speed than F1. This is due to the fact they (CART, IRL)often race on an oval where higher top speeds are possible, their transmissions are optimized for that. F1 is (always?) on a road course where you have sharp turns, their transmissions are optimized for acceleration rather than top speed. I’m sure that if you took F1 technology and put it on an oval with the right tranny, it would be faster than the other two.
A couple of additions and clarifications.
Ferrari probably doesn’t break even on its F1 budget. But it doesn’t matter. They are owned by the FIAT group, who until recently hated losing money on F1. Consequently, the Ferrari F1 cars of the early 90’s were utter crap compared to the competition. With the arrival of Luca de Montezemelo as manager of Ferrari F1, things changed. I don’t know if Ferrari break even (they have a lot of top tier sponsors, including Marlboro, Vodafone, and Shell), but it wouldn’t surprise me if FIAT had to cover up a substantial loss every year.
Indy and CART mahines are faster in terms of top speed. On an oval, top speeds can be in excess of 400 km/h, whereas the highest speed in an F1 car is just over 350 km/h (usually at the long straight at Hockenheim, Germany). I don’t know what would happen if you took an F1 car and gave it the “longest” gears possible. Maybe it could be a lot faster in a long straight line, who knows? Then again, the same reasoning applies to an Indy car.
F1 aerodynamics differ from Indy aerodynamics. An F1 car has to negotiate a track with a lot of curves. Downforce is of great importance to improve mechanical grip in the corners. An F1 car with full downforce settings on all wings can in theory be driven inverted at speeds over 190 km/h. Indycars have less downforce (in general) since they only negoatiate long left turns. This is also a factor in the higher top speeds.
I agree with the assessment on last weekend’s race - team orders should become illegal. But I won’t go as far to say F1 is the fastest parade in the world: anyone saying that obviously wasn’t paying attention to a certain Jacques Villeneuve that afternoon.
I wrote this last night, but the board seemed to hiccup and I wasn’t able to post it. Much of what I had to say has been covered in the interim, but since I took the time to write it I’ll go ahead and post it now. 
At first glance, F1 cars and “Indy Cars” do look quite similar. That link bterwill gave is really pretty nice for showing the basic differences and similarities.
Which is faster? Kind of depends on what you mean. F1 races only on road/street courses (read: twisty), so they’re optimized for that. They’re blindingly quick and nimble - slow down for a tight 50 mph corner, and then get on the throttle and be back up to 170 or so by the next corner. Top speeds on long straightaways that I’ve heard quoted this year seem to be in the 195 mph range - they could probably keep going, but they’re running out of road and need to mash the brakes.
Indy Racing League cars regularly exceed that - I’m hearing of average lap speeds of over 230 mph in the quals for the Indy 500, but oval racing is an entirely different ball game - you get up to speed and pretty much stay there. IRL cars are geared with oval racing in mind, and take the better part of a lap to come fully up to speed. Very high-speed collisions with concrete walls aren’t so rare in oval racing, so the cars are heavier and stronger than F1 cars to make up for it.
I’m sure you could tune an F1 car to do that kind of speed on an oval - reduce downforce drastically (which reduces drag), and change the ratios in the transmission. Actually, I think I recall hearing of speeds like 225 mph at the super-fast Hockenheim circuit (the most oval-like one on the F1 calendar) - although changes to that track for this season may make that a thing of the past…
Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART) are the other (primarily) North American open-wheel series - IRL is essentially a splinter group from it. It runs on both ovals and road/streets. Bigger-budget than IRL, but still chump change by F1 standards. Unlike F1 and IRL, these cars are turbocharged (although that’s changing in 2004). Possibly because of the oval thing, mininum weight for CART is also considerably higher than F1.
Both F1 and CART have races this year at the Gilles Villeneuve circuit in Montreal, and I believe I’ve read that the track layout will be the same for both races - meaning that lap times will be directly comparable. There’s no question that F1 times will be lower - the only curiosity is by how much.
Each flavor of car is optimized for the particular type of races it has to run. An IRL car would be an absolute dog on a street course, because its speedway gearing would give it really lousy acceleration. An F1 car would be a (relative) deathtrap on an oval, as the lighter chassis isn’t built for the kind of impacts that are inevitable in that arena. CART does a creditable job of handling both, but they’re visibly not as nimble on road courses as F1 cars.
F1 (especially over the past week) suffers from perhaps more than its share of political BS. For overall cool-ness of vehicle, though, I give it my nod. YMMV.
The movie Driven is based on CART. I believe CART gave Stallone et al. a large amount of help - footage from actual races, stuff like that. Yet, for some reason, CART never gets mentioned by name in the film - it’s simply some unidentified racing series that knowledgable fans will recognize as bearing a startling resemblance to CART. I’ve often wondered why they’d have helped so much without getting what would seem to be a lot of free publicity in return.
Seems brad here agrees with me.
FWIW, Stallone initially wanted Driven to be about F1. For years, he could be seen regularly on the grid, chatting with drivers and whatnot. But eventually, mr Ecclestone’s politics and greed forced him to look for another racing class.
Has anyone mentioned that that these cars are deliberately slowed down (hence the ‘formula’)
So they could be even faster than they already are if not slowed down (but they’d be more dangerous)
Good point. Grooved tyres, maximum wing sizes, maximum engine size specs, maximum drink bottle size, you name it: it’s all regulated. But I’m assuming that applies to Indy cars too - maybe in a lesser degree?
F1 and Indy cars (I’ll assume we’re talking about CART Champ cars, as they are a little faster than IRL cars and IRL cars race on ovals only) look superficially similar, but they are actually very different machines. Here is a little tabulation of the major technical differences:
Indy F1
Engine 2.65L Turbo 3.0L Normally aspirated
Horsepower: ~900 hp. ~800 hp.
Fuel Methanol Gasoline, 102 Octane
Weight 1550 lbs. 1100 lbs.
Brakes Steel Carbon
Gearbox 6 speed sequential manual 7 speed semiautomatic
Underbody: ground-effect tunnels Flat bottom
Which is faster depends on where you’re racing. On a road course, F1 cars are faster. On an oval, Indy cars are faster.
The Indy car has more downforce than an F1 car and a little more horsepower, but it also also weighs more. The F1 car’s lighter weight will make it faster through low-speed corners where mechanical grip is more important than downforce. It will also accelerate a little faster because the F1 car has a slightly better horsepower to weight ratio. The carbon brakes of the F1 car will make it stop faster and it’s semiautomatic gearbox will allow for quicker gear changes, both an advantage on a road course. The suspension of an F1 car is also optimized for flat cornering whereas the Indy car has to adapt to both road and oval circuits. This all makes an F1 car faster on a road course.
On an oval, acceleration is not so important so the Indy car’s extra outright horsepower will allow for higher top speeds. The Indy car also has more downforce and less drag, thanks to it’s underbody ground effect tunnels. The Indy car’s suspension is better equipped to cope with the high banking found on most ovals (at the US GP, the F1 cars struggled with Indy’s banking, and it’s a relatively flat 11 degrees). Plus, an F1 car most likely would not survive a full race distance on an oval because oval racing is much more physically strenuous on the car. All in all, and Indy car is in it’s element on an oval, and would be much faster.
Well, the term “Formula” refers to the idea that the cars are all designed and built to the same technical specifications, or formula. But the regulations are designed to limit speed. If the technical regs were frozen in, say, 1980 for example, they would now be driving fire-breathing 2,000 hp. turbo, 6-wheeled, active suspension, ground effect monsters.
Oh, god! Don’t go into Indy regulations!
Well, all right. A small comparison between Indy and F1 regulations is interesting, particularly if one looks at the 1960s.
The big turnaround in both racing leagues seems to have a lot to do with Jim Clark, for very different reasons. When Clark and Dan Gurney showed up to Indy in 1963 with Colin Chapman’s little cigar-shaped Lotuses, that’s when USAC really started messing around with shady officiating and regulatory shenanigans. Despite USAC’s open hostility, Clark put the matter largely to rest by winning the 1965 Indy 500. While USAC continued its annoying ways, it did relax somewhat and allowed some technological competition back onto the track, largely due to the efforts of Dan Gurney.
In 1968, Jim Clark was killed in a Formula 2 race when he slid off a section of track that had no barrier. The death of Clark, a close friend of Jackie Stewart’s and a fellow Scotsman, seems to have spurred other Formula drivers into open, vocal support for Stewart’s safety efforts, which had met two years of fierce resistance from track-owners.
The fairly open transfer of drivers and teams between Indy and F1 has, over the years, led to better safety and less bullshit in both circuits (but both of those points are arguable). It’s a shame that some of the greatest drivers ever had to go through so much heartache to do it.
As far as the expense of F1 goes, I always love to point out that when American sports salaries were beginning to make international headlines in the late 1980s, the highest-paid athlete in the world was Ayrton Senna, who was being paid a seven figure sum to drive for Honda with no commercial endorsements. While Senna was with Honda, his team reputedly had 100 engine blocks to work with at a million dollars apiece. What did Honda get out of it? The perfect test-bed to refine the VTEC technology you can find in practically every car they sell today.