Now, looking at a plain reading of the law, it appears that he is in the right, and section 1290.22 prohibits banning concealed carry in public parks. I don’t really want to debate this though. Let’s just assume it is correct, and he is in the right.
What options does one have if you know that something is legal and the police try to prohibit it?
You can just do it, and get arrested and adjudicate it. However, that doesn’t let you do what you want to do still.
You can file a complaint/sue, but that doesn’t help you be able to do whatever it is you want to do either. If you sue, they will probably say there is nothing of value to sue for.
Can you go to a judge and get an injunction against the police? Can you go to a higher police department (say OSBI)?
How can you actually get to do something legal if the police stop you from doing it?
You keep your head down. Don’t stand out, don’t make a target of yourself. And you vote with your feet.
This is the only viable option. Corrupt authorities will make your life miserable or kill you. You cannot get rid of them through normal processes - if you could, they wouldn’t already be in charge. Powerful people are the reason they are there.
Which question do you want answered? “What Options Do You Have If The Police Are Breaking The Law?” and “What options does one have if you know that something is legal and the police try to prohibit it?” are two separate questions.
SamuelA, you’ve been around long enough to know that political commentary of this kind is not allowed in General Questions. This is an official warning.
I meant this as a general policy for all corrupt regimes everywhere. Regardless of what they call themselves or which country. Voting with your feet is far more likely to succeed than any other option.
Did you think I meant a specific regime or country?
In the US, yes. You can seek an injunction against the government barring them from enforcing an unconstitutional law,* so long as you can show that the law has affected you or it is chilling your exercise of your rights.
So if Local Police Chief has said, “we’re not going to enforce this law,” the courts are unlikely to consider your case, because you haven’t established that the law is preventing you from exercising your rights. But if it is on the books and enforced, a court will generally permit you to seek injunctive relief.
*Alternatively, a law which is barred by a higher authority - e.g, a state law that contravenes federal law, or a local law that conflicts with state law.
Depending on the state, there might be remedies under state law. In other words, some states might allow him to sue the officers, police agency, or municipality. State remedies are typically minimal though, and I don’t feel like looking into Oklahoma’s law to help his cause. If he hasn’t been arrested, he might not even have standing.
There is a federal statute that allows people deprived of their federal constitutional rights to sue state officials in federal court for damages and/or injunctive relief (i.e., a court order saying “stop doing that to me!”). But even here, the Supreme Court has imposed lots of limitations on recovery. Critically, police officers generally benefit from qualified immunity if they acted in good faith.
This law review article is the most recent I could find on the history of qualified immunity. At first glance, it looks like a good article.
OP: As always, I recommend disregarding the constabulary. Esp. considering the circumstances of the linked article. CCP is a CCP–you’ve theoretically been checked out and approved as a non-nutter. Call the cop’s bluff & take the arrest and have one or more news agencies follow your story as it is adjudicated. I mean, if you’ve got a point to make, make it. And IMHO a concealed carry in a public event is very different from the gun fetishists who need to display their weaponry and quasi-military posturing. The first is exercising a right and in a venue not unknown for targeting by terrorists; the second is a reasonable suspect for disturbing the peace.
Sorry, I apologize if I asked two different questions. I didn’t realize that there were two questions. I’m interested in being able to exercise my legal right in the face of a police officer telling me that I cannot, not get someone in trouble.
For instance, I try to walk into an abortion clinic for an abortion and a group of police stop me and say “you can’t go in there, abortions are illegal.” Sure, I can sue, but how do I actually get my abortion?
Mobility. In the moment you either go somewhere else or you push the issue, get arrested, and push back through the courts. Which takes time and sometimes scads of money. But there is no legal way I know of to defy a police officer in the moment that could be called tried and true. Any time you go against an officer on the spot, you are taking a risk; usually minor but sometimes not.
I’m not sure. I’ve seen youtube videos of police trying to stop video recordings for various reasons, which isn’t legal.
The general advice is do what the police tell you to do, get away as fast as possible, but then report their behavior to internal affairs, a civilian oversight committee, their commanding sergeant, etc. But what do you do when the police pressure you to destroy evidence (by confiscating your phone you recorded them with)?
Following my previous response in more detail: are those police acting on their own, or are they acting on explicit orders or tacit consent from their chief? Almost certainly the latter.
Do they believe they are going to face significant civil or criminal consequences for their actions? Probably not, or they wouldn’t be doing it.
So yeah, life isn’t a Hollywood movie. You might get justice from the courts someday, but it generally takes years and tens of thousands of dollars minimum.
So your best bet is to drive away to a jurisdiction where it’s actually legal both on paper and in practice. Ask for help privately or publicly if you can’t afford it.
That will cost much less than suing and get results almost immediately.
A good friend of mine was living as a tenant in a house that had been converted to house a separate apartment with its own entrance. One even he invited 3 people–two women and one man–for dinner. Later, say at 10 PM, one man and one women left. Five minutes later the police arrived saying that the owner had complained and wanted the woman to leave. He objected and the cop answered that it was his house and he got to set the rules. So they went to motel and then my friend quickly moved out and found other accommodations. He also consulted a lawyer who told him the cop was totally wrong, but added, “Did you want to spend the night in jail?” I assume that is what the cop had threatened him with.
In the moment, you don’t have any options. You can try to convince them you are right, call for a higher authority (sergeant, supervisor, whatever), but at some point you will reach a level of authority and they just won’t agree with you. Then you are stuck.
As you say, trying to do it anyway will get you arrested. You can go to court and try go get remedy that way and maybe eventually the courts will decide you were right, and then the next time it happens (after the decision) you will be able to do the thing. But that won’t help you do the thing at the time.
You can file a complaint with internal affairs, but that takes time and won’t help you in the moment.
You can sue the department, hopefully with media attention, which might get them to reassess their policy, but it won’t help you do the thing that moment.
You can try to get an injunction through a judge - that process is suing them. See above.
I suppose you could apply to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (I had to look up OSBI), but if they decide to look into it, it will still take time, and you won’t be able to do the thing at the time. And no, your local county Sheriff doesn’t outrank the municipal police department and can’t tell them what to do. They may have overlapping jurisdictions, but have independent authority within their jurisdictions.
Maybe you could get the media’s attention (if they care) and have them document the police turning you away so it can be escalated in public attention. Possibly you could do that without getting arrested. That still won’t fix the situation immediately, but might get the police to reassess their policy.
“Disregarding the constabulary” is a poor choice. It doesn’t solve the immediate problem of getting to do what you want. Yes, you can take the arrest, but don’t do it in a violent manner. Disregarding the constabulary can get you killed - ask Eric Garner. They wanted to arrest him, he didn’t want to be arrested. Look what that got him.