I’d still like clarification about “actively proselytizing”, myself. How active is active? Is putting up a flyer in an esoteric shop advertising my Women’s Mysteries class “proselytizing”? What about if I put it up on the community board at Starbucks? How about the Golden Dawn putting little bookmark sized flyers with a contact number and invitation to an open ritual in occult books at Borders?
Does it count if you ask me about my necklace and I tell you it’s a pentacle symbolizing the four ancient elements and spirit and it’s part of my spiritual tradition? What if I tell you that I’ve got some people coming over for a Full Moon ritual this weekend and you should totally come?
Well, if we go by that definition, then you can add most neopagan paths and “religions” to the list. While we normally say we don’t proselytize at all, the truth is that almost 90% of the people in our world came here because someone told them about it or published a book or website about it. We call it “information” or “networking”, but since there are very few second and third generation neopagans or witches, we must have all gotten here through “proselytizing”.
ETA: Me, I find “proselytizing” carries a connotation of effort and annoyance and unwillingness to shut up and go away if the target isn’t responding positively.
I know this is GQ and not GD, but it really rankles me when people try to say that Mormons are not Christians. As Monty noted, the name of the Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Christ and his atonement are central to our beliefs.
The sticking point with some Christian denominations, notably the Southern Baptists, is that Mormons do not accept the Nicene Creed, which was formulated in the 4th century as an attempt by religious scholars and philosophers to reconcile the differing opinions of the day regarding the nature of God and the Godhead. This creed was adopted by a vote, and has been revised several times since, and is not found anywhere in the Bible, but because we reject it, we are “not Christians.”
As an interesting sidelight, in 1998 the Southern Baptists held their annual convention in Salt Lake City, partly in an attempt to witness against the “heathen Mormons” and convert them to Christianity. Former Pres. Jimmy Carter, himself a Southern Baptist who had had many dealings with the leaders and members of the LDS church stated, (paraphrasing from memory) “Anyone who says the Mormons are not Christians is a Pharisee.”
Yes, but now we’ve just gone up a notch: “induce”, “recruit” and “convert” have connotations all their own - in my world, again, they connote some level of pressure, of persuasion, not a simple, “here’s what I do, wanna join in?”
Taoists proselytized like nobody’s business back in Korea. Especially on university campuses. REALLY annoying. Their persistence was only equal to that of the Protestants. I did see a lot of Buddhists singing/chanting/asking for money on the street, but they rarely talked to anyone directly.
Maybe I am confused, but aren’t their Protestant faiths (especially Evangelicals) currently and “aggressively” recruiting members in South and Central America?
I am fairly certain that this is true. My understanding was that the Evangelicals were make sharp in roads among the predominantly Roman Catholic areas.
Hare Krishnas proselytize but they don’t think they have to save you in your present life. One fairly benign method they use is passing out free sugar candy. They perform some kind of prayer or ritual (I forget exactly what) when they’re preparing the candy (the candy itself is perfectly safe – no secret ingredients) and they think that if they can get you to eat it, it will improve your karma and put you on track for eventual enlightment in a future life if not this one. If they can get you to eat some candy, they’re happy. They did their job. They saved you. They don’t see it as necessary for you to believe them or agree with them.
So you are completely indifferent to whether or not someone else might be interested in joining in? You make no effort to make your faith appear appealing enough so that someone else might join?
I am a little puzzled about why you feel it is so important not to be seen as proselytizing.
This is very true. The barbers in the shop where I have been having my hair cut for the last 10 years have become increasingly evangelical over the last few years. They used to have the baseball game on TV, now it always seems to be a revival meeting. I’m afraid I’m going to have to find another place to go. There is also a Foursquare Bible Church (Iglesia Quadrangular) down the block from me.
No, I really don’t. I stopped hanging out with the Golden Dawn folks in my area because they were a little too enthusiastic with the flyering for me. I felt like they were more interested in getting new members for their own sake ($$, bragging rights), not the potential members’ sakes.
Mostly when people ask about my faith, it’s important to me to explain enough of it so that I don’t come off as batshit insane. I don’t like people thinking I’m batshit insane, and a few words of fact about what “witches” do and believe (or at least, what* I *do and believe) have, without exception, made people go, “oh…that kinda makes sense…” Whether or not they want to become neopagans is irrelevant to me. I just don’t want them to dismiss me because I am one. Generally speaking, more information leads to less dismissal.
Well, obviously, because it has negative connotations to me! I don’t want to do to others what some others do to me! I don’t want to be pushy, or confrontational or any of those things I associate with proselytizing. OTOH, I hate it when the Abrahamic religions (and occasionally Buddhism) are the only ones discussed in religion threads, so I try to get my little neopagan self in wherever possible.
Plus, I just like to get people to define their terms.
Really? That’s interesting, if true. I had a wonderful dinner at a Hare Krishna’s house once, does that count? I don’t remember if there was candy, but there was great food, adorable little girls running around, and a cute video the host had once been in.
And as far as Mormons being Christian, FatBaldGuy pretty much covered it. Mormons believe in the Biblical account of Jesus’ life, ministry, death, and resurrection. It’s true that we aren’t traditional Christians, and we don’t accept the creeds and councils, but last time I checked the Nicene Creed isn’t in the Bible.
It was probably offered to an idol of Krishna, making it Prasadam.
As it was explained to me, partaking of prasadam gives you some “good karma”, in that you are partaking of God’s blessing, which brings your consciousness closer to God. This karma you can transfer from one life to another, so if it only brings you 0.5% closer to God in this life, when you incarnate again you will be born that much closer to God.
I’ve been going to the Krishna temple in Spanish Fork, Utah for about 8 months now. I don’t know if there is a “God” outside of human imagination and I don’t care. I get a feeling of joy from ‘chanting’ (actually singing) the hare krishna mantra. I love the food and I enjoy asociating with the people there. If it’s all just brain chemistry and I’m getting high, at least I’m not taking drugs to get high.
Are those the guys that I always see around Manhattan in the “Mitzvah tanks” asking the people who pass by if they are Jewish? If you tell them that you are not Jewish, they’ll just say thank you and wish you a nice day, so they’re not trying to convert those who aren’t Jewish, but I don’t know what they would say if you answer in the affirmative.
My wife is Jewish but non-practicing. She use to work on Wall Street. The Lubavitcher Hasidim should definitely count as active proselytizes. They are nowhere near as bad as the Jehovahs and Baptists that knock on your doors, but they are clearly recruiting.
WhyNot, my personal rules of thumb when it comes to proselytizing are:
Do you look for an opportunity to bring up religion in the conversation?
Do you respect any indications from the other person that they don’t want to talk about religion?
If you couldn’t talk about religion, would you still want to talk to this person?
If you can honestly say “No.” to the first question and “Yes.” to the second and third then you’re probably okay.
I should note, I typically use these rules for determining whether or not people are proselytizing to me, not whether I’m proselytizing to them. I haven’t got a religion to peddle.
But of course “traditional Christian” is what most people (at least Christians) mean when they say “Christian,” so you get a huge disagreement about whether Mormons (and Jehovah’s Witnesses and Adventists and …) are really Christians or not.
