So…pretty much *every *country in the world has laws that are racially based and no different than Jim Crow laws?
mc
Wow! Your link to a historically inaccurate movie has definitely changed my mind! :rolleyes:
why dont you enlighten us?
mc
Sorry, I asked you first.
Well, as another Doper once put it, if the world’s countries allowed anyone to emigrate anywhere they wanted, and every country had to receive all the immigrants who wanted to come…Israel would no longer exist…
Since you’ve specified *illegals *, my answer is simple and emphatic, and entirely without emotional judgment: zero.
The whole POINT of having rules about anything is lost if the rules aren’t enforced. And there are reasons why people can be illegal.
I look at the world extremely mechanically, and extremely logically. I think we should build mechanisms (laws are mechanisms, as are the physical elements which see to their enforcement or not) which shape the ways of the world mindfully, to be the way we want them to be.
If we want to rescue some people and not others, then we can establish mechanisms to do that. The response to finding that someone is here illegally can be that we snap them up and deport them whence they came, OR we can establish a process where we review the details of the situation, and make changes to them so that they become LEGAL aliens.
But as long as the existing mechanism says “out,” I say “out.”
In the real world, I have heard talk since I was born, and read talk from before that, about setting up mechanisms to punish the LEGAL citizens who make it possible for the illegal ones to be here, and make money off them. So far, it’s all just been talk. If I could snap my fingers and eject all illegals AND jail or otherwise painfully fine those who hired them, I would do both simultaneously.
And again, if people get upset about that, then I support CHANGING THE LAWS, not ignoring or “bending” them.
i thought we were talking about USA, i didnt realize isreal’s illegal immigration problem was on the survey.
[QUOTE=manson1972]
Sorry, I asked you first
[/QUOTE]
then i stand by my answer of freedom!
mc
So in your view only the USA should have open borders and no other country in the world should?
So in your view, people of the world don’t have freedom unless they are able to immigrate to the USA without restriction?
Here’s the way I see it. I’m against illegal immigration. But all of them should be allowed to stay.
Here’s the deal. Illegal immigration could have been stopped cold 20 years ago with a very simple set of policies :
a. Hire illegal immigrants, you go to jail. Mandatory minimum sentence of at least a month in federal prison.
b. (a) is only an offence if you don’t report all your workers, with a photograph and their SSN, to the government. The government would find the illegals by simply looking for SSN collisions - if 2 people claiming the same SSN, with a different photograph, are working 2 different places, one of them isn’t a citizen. (20 years ago, it would have been a polaroid, today it would be a smartphone app)
c. A bounty program. Do you suspect your boss is hiring illegal immigrants? Report him, and if you are correct, it’s a big check for you. $10k a head or more.
Do all 3, and there wouldn’t be any new illegal immigrants because it would be too risky to hire them. And I say we just give permanent residency to every immigrant who was here a year before the law goes into effect, since our government fucked up, and a bunch of those people have lives here.
All these draconian measures to “handle” illegal immigration will do nothing to improve our society and will do a lot to make it worse.
I’ve been asked about the “ramifications” of a right to migration.
Whatever you think those ramifications are, they will pale in comparison to the paranoid, hateful oppressive social culture and police state that would be created by the “If too just did this illegal immigration would stop” measures. Not to mention the economic devastation that would follow.
The bulk of the greatness of American society is made up of a culture that is attractive to outsiders and that welcomes outsiders. Discouraging my people from coming here by any means will do nothing but rob ourselves of the benefits in exchange for nothing good.
Are you willing to change the laws that prohibit any ordinary Mexicans from immigrating here legally? Or are you saying that you’re willing to let the ones back in who meet the criteria as long as the criteria is that nobody can come back in?
They get to stay in prison.
I think the ramifications of completely open borders will be hundreds of millions of people from poor countries coming to the US as fast as the airlines can bring them here. Do you see some different ramifications?
If they come here to hide from past crimes, then they can be extradited. If they commit crimes here, they go to prison.
My grandparents came to America in order to get a decent income from diligent work, enabling their family to prosper and flourish as they merited. My illegal alien neighbors came to American for exactly the same reason.
The difference was not the accident of the place of their birth, but of the century of their birth. Why were my grandparents welcomed and deserving of respect in one century, but anyone who does the same thing for the same reasons in this century considered to be a disreputable criminal?
Do changing times cause changing morality? Or only changing laws, to protect those with vested interests?
Absolutely-stay here in jail. Consider the alternative. Send them back to their home country and they may stay out of jail and continue their life of crime. With their memory of the US, that criminal behavior is more likely to end up back here.
I would much rather have the criminals in jail then outside committing crimes.
As for the cost, that is a logistical matter. In my mind, any criminal who is able-bodied can support himself, even in jail. The economics will be different, but they can work for the state and at least partly pay their way.