I agree - I was baptized aeons ago when I was in my teens, but I don’t consider myseld exactly ‘christian’ any longer [to keep it short and sweet, most of what I have ever seen in churches sure as heck doesnt match up with the words of Jesus, and most of the books of the new testament are more or less commentary, speculation and second hand reports. I prefer to take personal responibility for my actions and more or less follow the golden rule.] I will willingly go to pretty much any church with anybody, but I will not take communion because I don’t actually need a symbol of faith, and I consider it inappropriate as I don’t fit into their definitions of christian.
On the other hand, I will cheerfully thank anybody who wants to pray for me, which used to confuse the hell out of some overly preachy bible thumpers in the military that I had to associate with because of my husband’s naval career…I’d let someone from the church of satan pray for me if they wanted to
Hmmm…I dunno about that. I’m a Lutheran and I was told it’s cool for anyone who wants to participate can do so. It IS between you and the Lord. Remember, Lutheranism is “Catholic Lite” and you’ll find a lot of rules that apply in the Catholic church are quite opposite in the Lutheran church.
Then again, I tend to find churches like to make up their own rules sometimes. I’m guessing your experience was either a different synod or just a church with different rules.
If you’re a divorced Catholic you can’t take communion in a Catholic church either. My godmother is a divorced Catholic and didn’t want to take communion at my Lutheran church. My mom (her best friend) told her to get on up there and take communion. She did and she’s yet to burn in Hell.
I took Catholic communion once. At my aunt’s funeral. I was devestated and I wasn’t going to let some silly rules keep me from feeling better that day. I have gone to other Catholic services and declined to commune, and declined to kneel as well.
That’s weird. In every Catholic church I’ve been to, which is quite a few thanks to my Aunts, you weren’t supposed to take communion until you’ve had first communion, even if you’re a bred Catholic. Usually, these were little kids, 12 years old or less. Sometimes, a parent stayed behind to mind them. And, no one made a fuss if you just sat in your seat while Communion was going on, little kids or no. There were lots of old ladies with bad knees who just stayed put, rosary beads firmly nestled into the dents on their liverspotted fingers.
Guess it just varies by the liberalness of the sect.
If a Mormon invites you to their wedding or other public ceremony, and you are not Mormon are you allowed inside or not? I’ve heard it both ways.
It depends on the type of Lutheran. ELCA welcomes any baptized Christian to participate in the Eucharist. Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Evangelical Synod (I think) ask that you be a member. However, it depends on the church - I (an ELCA member) have communed in Missouri Synod churches and they were fine with it.
My brother-in-law the Roman Catholic priest won’t commune me because I am not Catholic. I have, however, received Communion in various Catholic churches as well as a cathedral in New York City. And we stopped in for a visit at a tiny Catholic church some years back, and wound up receiving Communion, carrying the offering forward, and reading one of the Scriptures.
If you happen to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and you also hold a valid and current Recommend for Living Ordinances (colloquially referred to as a “Temple Recommend” or just “Recommend”), the couple getting married in the Temple may invite you to witness the event there. The room isn’t all that big, so there’s a limit, of course, on the number of invitees. I don’t think there’s a set number, just advice that “one does not invite more people than can comfortably attend.” If you do not have the Recommend, then you cannot enter the Temple and witness the event.
If the couple is having the wedding outside of the Temple, then anyone they invite, LDS or not, may attend the ceremony.
MikeS: Thanks for linking to two reports to which I contributed.
This sounds SO unlikely I’d like to hear other comments on this. I just can’t imagine a situation where it is mandatory NOT to obey some rule of a church up to a certain point, and then mandatory to obey it.
I will be happy to apologize for casting unjustified doubt should I be wrong.
From my time when I considered myself B’nei Noach, it’s true, although there were other commandments that non-Jews shouldn’t try to fulfill – wearing tfillin, for example. The idea is that certain mitzvot are for the Jewish people only, and if one isn’t Jewish one shouldn’t try to carry them out.
It’s not that different (in principle) from the rules on communion for Catholics and Orthodox. Even if you’re a catechumen, you can’t take communion, but once you’re baptized and chrismated, you’re commanded to take communion at least once a year.
No, I think you have the gist of it. Non-Jews who are practicing keeping the sabbath in preparation for conversion are required to do something that would be forbidden for a Jew to do on sabbath, such as light a match, so they aren’t technically “keeping it” yet.
So there ARE things that someone practicing to be a Jew MUST do, that will later not be allowed? Is a, er, novice jew, actually required to light a candle at some point on the Sabbath, and later this will not be acceptable?
I have a cite contrary to this. The Sabbath rules are explicitly applied to at least some non-Jews (those living among the Jews). So it is certainly not required for non-Jews to break the Sabbath.
Quoth NinjaChick:
So far as I understand it, there’s no actual requirement about this. Most likely, your grandma was just trying to make you more comfortable, by saying that you were under no obligation or expectation to do the Catholic Calesthenics, rather than saying you weren’t allowed to.
Jews are required to refrain from doing a bunch of things on sabbath. A non-Jew can “keep” sabbath like a Jew, performing no work for most of the day, except that at some point he has to do something that would be forbidden to a Jew. Lighting a match is often given as an example, because it’s just something easy to do that clearly violates the sabbath restrictions.
And here’s a cite that supports the assertion that non-Jews may not keep the sabbath as the Jews do.
My goodness, I guess I started something. (And I’m usually so mild and uncontroversial.) I originally posted on Friday. Yesterday, ironically, was the Sabbath, and I couldn’t follow up, and then my computer was temperamental today, so I haven’t been able to post any responses to the flurry of questions and comments. Thanks, yBeayf. I guess when Boyo Jim starts his new thread, I’ll do my best to keep up with the posts.
Oh, and since this relates to the other part of my post, and the main thrust of the thread:
Well, at my shul, and at the Orthodox shuls I’ve been to, there is rarely, if ever, a stack of yarmulkes for people coming in. It’s generally a BYOY situation, so if you didn’t come with one, you probably don’t have one. An Orthodox synagogue that caters to a diverse or less religious crowd might provide some.
Honestly, there’s no reason for a gentile to wear a yarmulke ever, even in a synagogue. It’s not about the synagogue itself; Orthodox men don’t wear them out of respect for the location. It’s a prevalent custom that’s intended to remind you that G-d is above you and that this awareness should govern your actions. Jewish men should also have their heads covered to pray or say blessings. I suppose it’s a nice gesture for non-Jews to put them on out of respect, but it’s technically unnecessary.
I believe it’s cmkeller’s Law that all questions about Orthodox Judaism will inevitably end up being posted on the Sabbath, when those who know the answers will be unable to reply.
In fact, some Conservative synagogues have baskets of yarmulkes outside the door to the sanctuary, and some also have a sign asking men to wear yarmulkes in the sanctuary (My in-laws’ shul has a sign like that). I don’t think many Conservative shuls insist that women wear yarmulkes, though- some women still think of that as an obligation only for men. Of course, those yarmulkes outside the sanctuary aren’t just for non-Jews- not all Conservative Jews carry yarmulkes with them at all times, since we don’t generally wear them outside of synagogue (except when doing Jewish rituals at home).
We invited a number of non-Jewish men to our wedding (of course, since my whole family is non-Jewish). We had a note in our wedding program asking men to please wear yarmulkes during the service, and had someone handing them out to men going into the sanctuary. The Conservative rabbi who married us asked us to do that.
Some synagogues also have prayer shawls, or tallits, on a rack outside the sanctuary (they’re the shawls with blue stripes and fringes on the ends). Those are just for Jews who’ve forgotten theirs, though- non-Jews shouldn’t wear a tallit.
If you, as a visitor to a synagogue, get asked if you want an aliyah (to come up and say the blessings over the Torah), they will usually ask you what your Hebrew name is. That tends to screen out the non-Jews from getting aliyot.
My (Orthodox) synagogue has has spare tallits as well. Because many Ashkenazi Jewish men don’t get their own tallits until they get married, but any man over the age of 13 can get an aliyah, the unmarried men that are called up to the Torah need a tallit to borrow. Most types of Sephardim and Yekkies (the casual term for Jews of German Descent) get tallits automatically at Bar-Mitzvah age.
That’s not a requirement for prospective converts to non-Orthodox Judaism (most people in the US who convert to Judaism convert to a non-Orthodox branch). During my conversion process, I was encouraged to keep at least one Sabbath, and wasn’t told about any rule mandating me to break at least one rule. I didn’t convert Orthodox, though, so things may be different in that case.
Now, what I could definitely understand is telling a non-Jew not to make the blessing that a Jew would make on performing a mitzva when they do the same thing that is a mitzva for a Jew. Making a blessing in vain (for example, saying the blessing for bread, and then not eating any bread) is considered a bad thing in Judaism- you’re taking God’s name in vain. Since many blessings are worded, “Praised are You, Lord our God, King of the Universe, who has made us holy and has commanded us to do _____”, a non-Jew, who has not been commanded to do whatever it is, would be making a blessing in vain if they recited that formula.
I did not know that. In Mr. Neville’s observant Conservative family, they generally got tallits as Bar/Bat Mitzvah presents. I got mine as a conversion present from my then-future MiL. His dad’s side of the family is German fairly-Reform Jews (that side of the family doesn’t generally keep kosher, though his dad has since he got married, AFAIK- he certainly does now), and his mom’s side is Lithuanian Jews, FWIW.
