If it’s that rare it’s no big deal. I do wish theists would express their own beliefs much more rarely than they do. I just don’t understand your frustration at holding back on response to their pointless expressions of religious beliefs. I should say I understand the frustration itself, but not why you feel the need to comment. In another thread atheists seem to be saying they felt compelled to express their atheism in response to a religious statement in the nature of “I’ll pray for your sick relative”. If atheism is not a religion, something atheists tend to insist upon, then why would you respond to such a statement with something like “I don’t believe in God”. If you were to say to me “I am an atheist” I wouldn’t respond by saying “I don’t like the taste of coffee”.
I am an agnatheist. I’m not sure whether or not I don’t belief in God. Essentially, I just don’t feel like committing myself to atheism any more than I would commit myself to a religion. Why must I even make such a decision even though I have no belief in any higher power.
I think that our experience of consciousness comes from an emergent property of complex information processing. I don’t think AI has it, yet, but it will sooner than we think it will.
Similarly, social “zeitgeist” acts as a complex information processing system, and there is something to be said for an emergent consciousness that exists in others memories and thoughts. I do think that, without invoking the supernatural, there is a part of us that continues after our body stops, something that could even be considered to have a conscious experience.
Well, as I said, it’s an oversimplification. But in order to mentally process the notion of “you being reincarnated” we need to process the notion of “you”. What if you-in-the-plural were to have full emotional and conceptual significance to you, to the point that your individual self isn’t the (only) “real you”? As I said, a massive portion of the thoughts inside your head aren’t really generated by you as an individual (although they can be critiqued by you as an individual — but even there, your critiques are more often than not going to be criticisms you’ve absorbed sponge-style from your social environment).
Some people that we know of, even some we know personally perhaps, come to identify more strongly with some movement or cause than they identify with their own individual selves, and they do courageous things, taking stands that they know will result in their individual deaths because the cause is more important. To parse that as a coherent and rational set of priorities, we have to accept that the self-in-the-plural has become more real to them than self-as-individual.
Some such people, admittedly, are jerks anyway, and do social harm. But a lot of them are people we (well, some of us, I don’t mean to put words in your mouth here) admire as people who really tried to do good in their life. And in many such cases we (well, some of us) would nod and agree that who they were did not die when their individual self died, precisely because they identified with the larger cause more than they identified with their individual self.
It’s not really reincarnation of course, nor is it heaven versus hell. It’s a shift in perception about where identities are vested. You can get quite woo about it, but you don’t need to. There’s some essential truths here that any down-to-earth rationalist can consider.
Most of human thought is no more exclusive to an indivdual than it is exclusive to one neuron. Most of who you think you are is shared, communal, shared matrix-like with the society of which you are a part.
That is pretty much the dictionary definition of “atheist” that I use and I’m familiar with.
You lack a belief in any god. Pretty much all atheists I know do not “make a decision” on this, they just lack a belief to the same degree that you do. There is no “commitment” to be made, just a continued state of being unconvinced.
That is pretty much the exact opposite of what atheists in that thread said. What was said was that they felt compelled to thank the theist for their useless words that only serve to remind them of their loss, and that any expression of atheism is repressed in order to not appear to be “rude”.
Exactly, which is why we don’t, even though we’d rather not have people imposing on us with such sentiments.
Now, when we are misrepresented, sometimes we do feel the need to set the record straight, and that can be upsetting to those who insist in their misrepresentations.
You no more need to commit yourself to atheism than you need to commit yourself to not collecting stamps.
I don’t know, I’m pretty firmly committed to not collecting stamps.
I don’t feel the urge to “correct” religious people. Because I grew up believing, I understand that some of them truly think they’re doing me a favor by evangelizing, so I’m as polite as possible about declining to engage. And because atheism isn’t a religion, I’m not obliged to share the good news that you don’t have to believe in God.
Check out the Unitarian Universalists if you seek something like that. A lot of us UUs are atheists and agnostics who enjoy community and working together for social fun and social justice.
Are you as committed against all the activities and hobbies you don’t participate in?
I grew up in a religious household, and have to admit that I did some proselytizing myself back when I thought it was cool. But evangelizing isn’t all they do. They also think they are doing you a favor to pass laws that force you to follow the rules of their religion.
No matter how polite I am in declining to engage, their demands to do so become less and less polite. Just declining is what is seen as being incredibly rude.
No one said you were. OTOH, I do like to share the good news that we don’t have to live under your god’s rules.
Well, are you in fact? If so, it’s uncalled for because, in the end, you really don’t KNOW any more than the rest of the human creatures roaming this planet. We tend to get shit wehn we give shit. Just sayin’
I often can just enjoy the melodies. One of my musician friends once told me, “most lyrics are just nonsense, anyway.” Christmas music mostly speaks of good things, even if one doesn’t believe in the religious aspect, “Peace on Earth” is a good thing, and we should certainly strive for it.
Yet the religionists that push their points are often praised for their efforts, for converting people, for going door-to-door to change minds, for raising money and harassing Congress to change laws, for ignoring laws based on the Establishment Clause to slip religion into public spaces and schools etc. Apparently there are different levels of tolerable “shit” because atheists do not come close to the levels of it compared to religionists.
I noticed that you said “We tend to get shit when we give shit”. Do you often say that to religionists that complain about being persecuted…or any religionists at all?
Yes, the statement pertains to anyone. The religious right is very often, “too intolerant, condescending, dismissive, rude, confrontational, etc.” My chief criticism of overly aggressive religious zealots is that they often have no real understanding of the religion they profess to believe in and practice. According to the New Testament accounts, they are supposed to be loving, tolerant and exemplify their beliefs by setting an example. Instead. they often take the role of the pharisees and try to beat people into submission, which is ironic when you consider the fact that Christ took a dim view of them.
They’re called “beliefs” for a reason, and the reason is that they are not a factually proven reality. When people with religious/spiritual beliefs lose sight of that fact, many problems ensue.
It took a while for me too. But I think that screaming “Oh My God!” during sex is rather a cliché from (bad) American porno films anyway. Or does anybody really DO this?
