Oh, okay, I see it now.
Don’t upset your kids by screaming, “Oh, God, I’m coming!”
Well, I can’t remember the last time, if ever, that I raised the subject of religion with a theist. Usually, I just shut up on the subject, and when it’s raised, even provocatively, by a theist, I’ll just let it slide. But yes when harangued I occasionally explode with a tirade lambasting the haranguer for wasting my time and attention with this offensive shit that anyone with two IQ points to rub together would reject on principle.
In that case, I certainly don’t blame you.
This is very much inline with my thinking.
It would be pleasant to believe I am going to see my family and pets, that have passed away, again.
For a long weekend, maybe. For all of eternity… I’ll pass.
I just wanted you to know that I got this reference!
My dad collected stamps, and when he died, I got them all. It took me ages to get rid of them without resorting to just throwing them out (which would have felt disrespectful to my dad’s memory). So, no.
My brother got the Shopsmith. Life’s not fair, but as an atheist, I don’t expect anything else.
I’m not sure I understand what that has to do with atheism. Moreover, I would say atheism allows me to properly consider that if the world is not just then it is because people have not willed to make it so. Nothing is forbidden, including making the world more just than it would be if we were still stuck adhering to fanciful notions of divine will.
So I guess what I hate most about being an atheist is having to disagree so frequently with other atheists and not having some imaginary authority to appeal to when such disagreements arise. I have to actually, you know, put in the work to convince you you’re wrong, same as we would all to put in the work to make the world more just. God won’t do it for me, not even if I pray real hard and eat all my vegetables before washing behind my ears.
I’m not talking about the extremes done by the Religious Right. I’m talking about things like going door-to-door, praying in public to show piety, outreach programs etc. If organized atheists went door to door to try to convince people that worshipping deities was a huge waste of time they would be labeled as “militant”(they have certainly been labeled as such for doing much less), and any outreach programs are labeled as “indoctrination”. Way before the coming of the “Religious Right” atheists were expect to bow their heads and pretend to believe and pray when dining with others. They were expected to do the same or be shamed by both students and teachers during school prayers in public schools. They certainly couldn’t organize any clubs on school grounds.
I know of no place that requires a religious test for a Lenten fish supper. Got the money? Take home some fish.
If you believe in a higher power, then injustice in the world might be attributed to the dictates of some benign plan which we are too small to perceive. I found that to be a comforting notion when I thought that way.
I don’t at all think that the world has to be the way it is, and I strongly agree with you that constructing a more just and more beautiful world is the best use of human time and effort. I very much do my best to make the world a better place.
I’m simply not an optimist by nature. I don’t believe the circumstances of life on this planet are likely to substantially change, no matter how hard I/we work. Doesn’t mean we give up. I’m told that the Talmud says “You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.” One may of course take a great deal of comfort in such ideas! I’m just not able to be comforted in that way, I suppose.
There is a great deal of wisdom in religious texts. It was in fact people’s earliest struggles of coming up with a system where people could live together without everyone being murdered in their sleep.
There is also a great deal of not so great wisdom in religious texts, as it was our earliest struggles of coming up with a system where people could live together without everyone being murdered in their sleep.
If there is something that inspires you to make the world a better place, great. If there is something that tells you to work against that goal, you can ignore it.
Probably the worst thing about being an atheist is that I have to justify my moral code on its own merits, rather than simply copying it from bronze age writings. If I chose to be a bigot, I’d have to do it on my own terms, rather than blaming god.
For some of us, the fundamental theistic principle is that — in some meaningful sense of the word — it isn’t true that the strong prevail and that there’s no real meaning behind the notion that the right or ethical “should” prevail. For some of us, it doesn’t require an Entity (semitranslucent and bearded, or otherwise); a law of nature that inherently makes the right or ethical prevail might do it, especially if combined with a route by which we as individuals can somehow participate in getting matters to go in that direction.
Your own mileage may, of course, vary. The world has many loving caring humanistic atheists who, as a whole, have done a far better job of making the world a better place than most of us theistic folks have.
This isn’t restricted to just atheists.
I’m honestly struggling to see any drawbacks at all.
Around here they call it “Cod for God.” But, yeah, they’ll take anyone’s cash.
Perhaps a more enlightened view would be that since religion is a key part of human civilization pretty much everywhere, perhaps it serves a purpose you don’t understand. Perhaps belief is not stupidity, but a reflection of some deep need in humans that is not served well in modern society.
I try to think of things scientifically. If a behaviour is common across multiple societies, it’s much better to ask why and examine the costs and benefits than to assume that religious people are just ‘stupid’. Religion serves all kinds of functions in a society. And some of the smartest peoole in history were religious, so maybe something other than ‘stupidity’ is at play.
Also, modern political tribalism is becoming increasingly religious in nature, so be careful about dissing the religious. MY tribe will bring us to the promised land. YOUR tribe will take us to hell. Policy discussions? Actual math? Never heard of it. Economics? It can be re-invented to fit what we desire. Human Nature? It can be subverted, suppressed, or forced to change. The important thing is to believe that your side is right. Questioning your own side is not allowed. Some ideas and words are too dangerous to be allowed to be uttered. We need an elite class telling us what to do, and if we don’t listen the world will end.
Sound familiar? When we get rid of religion, maybe we just re-invent it elsewhere under another name, and with more destruction as we try to implement a secular heaven on Earth through force.
As for the worst thing about being an athiest I’ll second the loss of community in the Church. I was religious as a child and grew up in a strong religious community, but I became an athiest in my teens. It’s certainly a lonelier path, but for me there is no option because I can’t force myself to believe and Pascal’s wager is a ridiculous concept.
I’m happy I don’t believe though, because I can’t think of anything sadder than the idea that all the accomplishments and creations of mankind are meaningless - just toys to occupy us until God comes and takes us home and scraps everything we did. What a horrible thought.
Well, I don’t want a secular heaven on Earth implemented through force. We can agree on that.
I do know that some of the smartest people in history have been religious (or at least claimed to be). It’s a puzzle, and perhaps you are right to give religious people more credit (or less condemnation). If they literally believed a guy named Jesus was born through immaculate conception and rose from the dead, then I can’t explain it. Perhaps they thought it was a powerful story and something we can learn from, like the stories of Zeus or Apollo.
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Golly, what a weird way to think about it. ISTM that you start life as an emotionally unstable basket case who can’t experience the slightest deprivation without dissolving into a devastating screaming fit, and work up from there building your resilience and ability to cope with the world while expanding your capacity for happiness and serenity. If you play your cards right and get some breaks, you can end up as someone strong and fulfilled enough to handle the inevitable ugliness and decrepitude of old age while still being WAY happier on average than a typical baby. (And better company, too.)
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I think I’ve mentioned before around here that I find the only real cognitive/emotional downside to atheism is not having a rational justification for generalized expression of gratitude. I don’t mind having “no one to blame” for suffering, mostly because I think my own blaming propensities don’t need any encouragement, tyvm.
But sometimes when you’re feeling joyful it would be nice just to be able to praise, y’know? Let everything that hath breath! 