What should be the goal of imprisonment (for a crime)?

[LilShieste]

[QUOTE=mlees]
Thanks for the replies, LilShieste.

I guess I misunderstood your stance. Am I arguing against a point you never made? I’ll reread the thread, and try to see where I screwed up…
[/QUOTE]
Actually, it looks like we were both in error. After re-reading your posts, I come away with a slightly different understanding. I think our POVs are actually fairly similar (WRT the discussion we were having).

Maybe it would be clearer, though, if I first explained what caused me to start the thread.

Capital punishment. Many people think it’s necessary, some for reasons like: “They took someone’s life, so they have no right to live”; “If you commit murder you forfeit your rights as a human being”; etc.

An argument could be made that the purpose of capital punishment is deterrence. While this may be a legitimate argument, I feel that it is often just a fallback reason for implementing this form of punishment.

I think the government should not apply such thinking to the punishment that it deals out, because it is based on the concept of vengeance which (IMO) serves no useful purpose in society (i.e., for the same reason vigilante justice is against the law).

Does that make more sense?

[Little_Nemo]

Testimonies like the one in post #48. Also the idea that if we treat a human being like an animal, they’ll start to behave more like an animal.

Unfortunately, I don’t have an answer to this question. I know we can do better, and I feel that the topic is a bit closed off from discussion.

My suggestion is that if you’re interested in penal reform, the first step you need to take is to learn a lot more about how actual prisons function. You’re asking for reforms and programs that were instituted thirty or more years ago.

[Measure_for_Measure]

Little Nemo, if you know of a single terrific link or book, please share. I understand though that the information may be too diffuse to make that request practical.

[mlees]

[QUOTE=LilShieste]
Actually, it looks like we were both in error. After re-reading your posts, I come away with a slightly different understanding. I think our POVs are actually fairly similar (WRT the discussion we were having).

Maybe it would be clearer, though, if I first explained what caused me to start the thread.

Capital punishment. Many people think it’s necessary, some for reasons like: “They took someone’s life, so they have no right to live”; “If you commit murder you forfeit your rights as a human being”; etc.

An argument could be made that the purpose of capital punishment is deterrence. While this may be a legitimate argument, I feel that it is often just a fallback reason for implementing this form of punishment.

I think the government should not apply such thinking to the punishment that it deals out, because it is based on the concept of vengeance which (IMO) serves no useful purpose in society (i.e., for the same reason vigilante justice is against the law).

Does that make more sense?
[/QUOTE]

All righty, I think I see that now.

I wasn’t addressing the Death Penalty (which isn’t being applied in every state of the Union) specifically, but the justice system as a whole.

If the majority of us in society felt that the Death Penalty was unjust, and wanted to ban that punishment, I wouldn’t be upset. there are good arguments against it.

---

You made comments about “We shouldn’t treat them like animals” and a desire for more rehabilitation efforts in other posts.

I am not sure what mental image you have of prisons, but I assume that not all prisons are the same. Many could use improvement (in the case of an aging or overcrowded facility) and/or oversight (in the case of prisoner abuse, corruption, or other issues). I thought by your “animals” comment that you felt that either the majority of prisoners in the US are either mistreated (beaten, and whose only source of drinking water was licking the morning dew off the rusty bars of their cell) as a policy, or that perhaps incarceration itself is cruel, and sentences were too harsh in their length.

But I do not address that, because there are (I assume) plenty of facilities that “measure up” in terms of a more humane environment.

[LilShieste]

[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
My suggestion is that if you’re interested in penal reform, the first step you need to take is to learn a lot more about how actual prisons function. You’re asking for reforms and programs that were instituted thirty or more years ago.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the suggestion, Little Nemo. There’s no doubt that I can be better educated about this entire topic.

@mlees

All righty, I think I see that now.

I wasn’t addressing the Death Penalty (which isn’t being applied in every state of the Union) specifically, but the justice system as a whole.

To be clear, I don’t want to restrict this debate to only the DP. The DP is just an example of the problem that I’m describing.

@mlees

You made comments about “We shouldn’t treat them like animals” and a desire for more rehabilitation efforts in other posts.

I am not sure what mental image you have of prisons, but I assume that not all prisons are the same. Many could use improvement (in the case of an aging or overcrowded facility) and/or oversight (in the case of prisoner abuse, corruption, or other issues). I thought by your “animals” comment that you felt that either the majority of prisoners in the US are either mistreated (beaten, and whose only source of drinking water was licking the morning dew off the rusty bars of their cell) as a policy, or that perhaps incarceration itself is cruel, and sentences were too harsh in their length.

I apologize for the confusion - I can see how my statements could have been interpreted that way.

The problem isn’t with the incarceration itself, but rather with what happens during and after a person’s incarceration. While not being abused, they are still often treated and regarded in a sub-human fashion (like they fall somewhere between animals and humans, on a scale of humanity.) Not necessarily by prison guards and such, but by society in general. And this prejudice often persists even upon release.

I can’t see how this prejudice or lack of empathy for another human being, who has indeed committed wrongful acts, can be beneficial to society. It fosters resentment, which in turn makes rehabilitation difficult, if not impossible.