Yeah, you “cited” a Nightline show from sometime about some persons. I have no idea why we’re having such a hard time finding it.
Sorry, you can’t make those kind of accusations and statements without backing it up here. And you can’t expect other people to do your work for you.
You said:
I say: Cite? I’m not saying you’re lying, I’m just asking for you to back up your statements with some sort of fact-based proof.
Otherwise your arguement is meaningless. Especially since a few posts later you said “I didn’t keep it turned on long enough to watch too much of it…”
FTR, Koppel went into retirement almost 17 months ago.
Back on topic: In regard to Imus showing up on satellite, couldn’t Stern do something to block him from getting a deal? Now that XM and Sirrius are joined, I would imagine Stern carries some weight with both providers, and I would imagine he wouldn’t look too kindly to his old terrestrial rival showing up, expecially if there was some threat of direct competition.
Thanks for that!
I knew that by writing what I wrote to you that it would give some folks a chance to slice and dice the comments to suit their own (lame) attempts to “let me have it,” thus avoiding the meaningful points I brought up in the previous post. But so be it, they are what they are.
God Bless you Kristopher Kime! I’m fighting the good fight, buddy, but as you know, this is not only a dangerous world, but a wacky one full of you-know-whats :mad: !
What on earth are you talking about?
So you feel that someone asking you for a cite (in Great Debates, no less) somehow hinders your means of “fighting the good fight?”
Do you think your points should all be taken at face value, just because you say so? Your post is your cite? No; and just because someone says “Prove it” doesn’t mean they’re attacking you or your “cause.”
Yes, now I remember … it was show numbers 14, 789 on July 6, 1999, a Thursday, titled “Are blacks being denied fair treatment in the work place?” And show number 15,322 on March 1st, a Tuesday, titled, “Do white store owners treat black shoppers unfairly?” And then there was show number 15,481, on September 22nd, a Friday, titled, “Are blacks being denied coaching jobs in the NFL?” And then there was program number 15,943 on June 10th, a Monday, titled, “Are universities being fair to black students?” And then let’s not forget Nightline program number 16, 339 on May 8, a Tuesday, titled, “When will white people ever repay blacks for their enslavement?” And of course, who could ever forget show number 16,993 on Wednesday the 14th of March, title “Not enough black players in the NBA!”
There. I hope that I’m now up to your standards of credibility (though somehow I question as to whether or not you’d make similar demands if I’d said that David Duke believes in ‘white separatism.’) :dubious:
I’ll make it simple: Type in Google the words “white inventors”.
Now, if you can get your head around THAT (i.e. search results), then we can discuss it, okay? 
Absolutely not.
I just Googled it, and the first link to come up was Black Inventors in the USA.
What is it you wanted me to wrap my head around now?
LOL!!! 
Nothing. I don’t want you to wrap your head around a thing!
Take Care!!
I found an old but fascinating report on a study of forty months of programming of Nightline. The report was published in 1989, but it is still revealing.
I certainly hope that they managed to balance things a little better in later seasons. I can’t honestly say that I noticed how conservative it was.
Are You On the NIghtline Guest List?
Some of the statistics:
80% of the guests from the United States were corporate representatives, officials in government positions or professionals.
Only 5% were from the public interest sectors representing civil liberties, the environment, the peace movement, etc. Less than 2% were labor or racial leaders.
Of the US guests, 92% were white, and 89% were male.
The review also mentioned that not many resident critics of the US were interviewed.
And now that he’s fired, he can do his show over the Web. If people want to watch it, then fine.
Mundane? If someone called your fiance or sister or daughter a whore or any word that’s been used as a racial or sexual put down on national television and radio, how would you feel? Believe me, she would be likely to feel more intensely about it than you. They are just on the threshold of womanhood. Do you remember how sensitive you felt when you were 18, 19, or 20? Think about some of the questions we get from young people that age at the Dope.
Maybe Monstro or you with the face will tell us their feelings about how it compares. We can’t filter it quite the same way.
Nice going, ZOE!
But as far as I can tell, it doesn’t prove or disprove my contention. In a way it’s kind of glaring that if the point of this organizations existence is to put a magnifying glass up and scrutinize, then how on earth could they possibly have not noticed how Koppel never had so much as one positive thing to say about Caucasian Americans during shows that related to the whole black/white issue.
Hmm. I wonder where do they get their funding?
Nobody is LOLing here except you. Since you were obviously wrong on your first cite, would you mind giving us the years for the other cites so that we may look them up? It’s not a valid cite if nobody can see it, y’know.
There is a big difference between insulting offensive and even racist and sexist speech and hate speech. Even if it is insulting those “just on the threshold of womenhood.” The firestorm that this grew into smacks of those who are all for free speech … so long as people only say that which I want to hear.
My 18 year old sensitivies? Well I had grown up in a suburb near Skokie IL, and that was the year that the Nazis wanted to march there. I am Jewish and I argued that they should be allowed to march. And that Jewish groups should put on a circus at the same time to ilustrate what clowns those jokers were.
Monstro has told us what she felt when she first heard of this ugly comment. It was before this blew up and and the first that I had heard of it.
Her last paragraph deserves revisiting I think. That clearly had laid out the difference. Being offended and insulting the “pencil-dicked, no-nut, cave-dwelling asshole” is fine and understandable. But those who took it to the level of calling for him to not only apologize and to be censored but to be fired … that took it beyond and into the level that deserves contempt itself.
They’ve proposed a merger, but it isn’t a done deal.
I agree that the apology rhetoric was overblown, but why do you think calls for his firing were so contemptible? The man has had a long career and this is not the first time he’s said needlessly offensive things on the air. He’s not entitled to anything.
And honestly, if MSNBC and CBS had just fired him from the get go, they could have spared us a week and a half of agony from seeing his Andrew Jackson mug on TV. They dragged their feet so they could keep airing the ongoing spectacle, and this is why we’re still talking about the man, as if he really even matters in the grand scheme of things.
Imus needs to play the Money Card.
He should pay someone or some group a lot of money from his personal account.
Even though there will be purist protestations that it’s not about money and that money can’t help, the ole green salve will make restitution faster than the ole verbal grovel.
Losing his income won’t count since he’s so near the grave anyway–it will be seen as simply taking the opportunity to retire.
Honestly** GuyNblueJeans** I was just looking around to see if I could find what you were talking about. I doubt if we’ll agree but I was interested in finding out what you were talking about.
Oh without question he is not entitled to anything more than any of the rest of us. And from what I have heard I have missed nothing by never having listened to him. No one ever tried to force me to either. I could avoid him completely just by listening to my usual stations. And did wthout any effort at all. Just like I never hear what Howard Stern rants about or a countless other radio personalities.
But to say that because I (or you, or Rev Al or anyone else) do not like what he says that he should therefore be censored so that those who choose to subject themselves to his drivel cannot make that choice any more, to the extreme point of removing his forum to say it, because and exclusively because I or we find it offensive speech … that is contemptible.
Mind you I have moderated a bit since my days of youth. I once said even extreme hate speech like that of the Nazis should be allowed without any fetters. I now recognize some limits. True hate speech should be restricted off of the airwaves. But only true hate speech, not just offensive speech.
In Monstro’s thread some goofus tried to claim that calling Imus’s words racist and sexist was an affront on freedom of speech and Monstro and others rightfully slapped him down. Mocking Imus, insulting Imus, ignoring Imus, expressing outrage at Imus … all of these are understanable and none of those options infringe on the rights of others to hear that which I find to be offensive. Getting him fired does. It is wrong.
Having him removed from his job != Censorship.
Freedom of speech and censorship have nothing to do with this. Imus is not entitled to his job and his devoted fans are not entitled to hearing his schtick either. No one is entitled to anything. This includes the people who have complained about him.
If I go to a restaurant and one of the waiters disrespects me by calling me a racial slur or deliberately fucking with my food, sure I have the freedom to not patronize that restaurant ever again. I also have the freedom to complain to the restaurant management and ask that they do something about their employee or else face the economic consequences of a negative word-of-mouth campaign. Neither one of these options strike me as being more or less contemptible than the other. Its market pressures at work, just in a way that we don’t normally think of it.
I still don’t get why complaining is not wrong, but “getting him” fired is. Imus’ employers ultimately are the only ones who can fire him. So if you think that’s unfair, blame it on them. Not the people he offended.