What The Fuck Is Canada's Problem ?????

The BBQ Pit
61

[QUOTE=Malthus]
…

In the case of Canada, both of these factors point strongly towards winter sports. Canadians love hockey, skiing and the like; they do not by and large love the summer athletics as much.

While it is true that Canada has summer sports, and so more opportunity than Australians to compete in such sports, the national focus is not on them.

…

But the imbalance is in fact worse than that (for Canada in the summer games), because in the case of Canada, winter sports are by and large much more popular. Kids growing up tend to play hockey, ski and skate for fun. Every street corner has its street hockey games even in summer; ice hockey is a popular pastime for children, with many joining junior hockey leagues …
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While this seems superficially plausible, if you drill down it’s not an explanation for the Canada/Australia imbalance. In fact, you make my point for me.

As you say, Canada has a number of very popular, “every street corner has a game” winter sports like hockey, skating and skiing, which are winter olympic events and so Canada should win winter olympic events in those sports. And it does.

The sports which Australians love, upon which there national focus, are cricket and three codes of football (League, Union and Australian Rules). These are the comparable popular, streetcorner games. None of these are even Olympic sports. So by your reasoning, Australia should win nothing.

But Australia does win olympic medals. It wins them in sports that are not the national focus. In sports that are small minority, like swimming and athletics and perhaps cycling, and indeed in sports so tiny that even describing them as “minority” gives an exaggerated impression (equestrian, shooting, boxing, rowing, canoeing, field hockey, weights, sailing, judo).

In short Australia wins medals in precisely the type of minority, non-focus sports that you excuse Canada from not winning.

62

[QUOTE=Princhester]
Yeahbut. You miss the point. What you are saying is like saying that the reason a serial axe murderer does such extensive axe murdering is that they spend all their money on axes.
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And what you’re saying is that the axe murderer can still hack someone to death, even if he never gets his hands on an axe.
[QUOTE=Princhester]
The more pertinent reason is that they are a homicidal maniac who is obsessed with killing people with axes. You or I could buy an axe, but the key point is: we choose not to, as we are not obsessed with axe murdering. Any democratic first world country could buy an AIS-equivalent…
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So, your point is that the primary cause of Australia’s sporting success is the country’s obsession with sport, and that the money spent on the AIS is merely a symptom or a consequence of that obsession?

Sure. I’ve never disputed that. I absolutely concede that most non-sports-mad countries would have looked at the results in Montreal, shrugged, and moved on. Instead, Australia’s obsession with sports success led to the creation of a multi-million-dollar publicly-funded institution.

But the fact is that the AIS has made a significant contribution in translating the national obsession into tangible results. Australia could be the most sports-mad nation on earth, but i still maintain that it would not be the 4th most successful nation at the summer Olympics without the AIS. And the historical record of Australia’s Olympic performance in the post-Montreal era provides considerable support for that argument.

63

Guys, guys, can’t we all just get along? Canadians love Aussies, (as far as I know) Aussies love Canadians; why do we have to be tearing each other apart? Over a bunch of corrupt, silly games?

(Where’s that kumbaya smiley?)

64

[QUOTE=featherlou]
Guys, guys, can’t we all just get along? Canadians love Aussies, (as far as I know) Aussies love Canadians; why do we have to be tearing each other apart? Over a bunch of corrupt, silly games?

(Where’s that kumbaya smiley?)
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This.

Though, I can see and understand the points of view of both my cranky countrymen.

I like seeing Burkina Faso win shit.

And yeah. Canadians are cool. They’re like Aussies with antlers. Or something. :smiley:

65

[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog]
Though, I can see and understand the points of view of both my cranky countrymen.
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You talking about me?

I’m not cranky; i just like a good argument. Actually, i don’t think Princhester and i are very far apart on the issue; it’s really a matter of where one lays the most emphasis.

But if anyone’s right, it’s me. :slight_smile:

66

[QUOTE=mhendo]
You talking about me?

I’m not cranky; i just like a good argument. Actually, i don’t think Princhester and i are very far apart on the issue; it’s really a matter of where one lays the most emphasis.

But if anyone’s right, it’s me. :slight_smile:
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Yeah, I am, and I agree you’re not that far off one another’s beam. It’s all good (as those frightful, dope fiend Americans would say. :wink: ).

67

[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog]
This.

Though, I can see and understand the points of view of both my cranky countrymen.

I like seeing Burkina Faso win shit.

And yeah. Canadians are cool. They’re like Aussies with antlers. Or something. :smiley:
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Hey is that me you are talking about? Me as a curmudgeon? Never! :smiley:

68

[QUOTE=Princhester]
As you say, Canada has a number of very popular, “every street corner has a game” winter sports like hockey, skating and skiing, which are winter olympic events and so Canada should win winter olympic events in those sports. And it does.

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As I mentioned above, I think even this premise is questionable. The one time Canada hosted the winter Olympics, Calgary 1988, they didn’t win a single gold medal.

Ed

69

[QUOTE=Princhester]
While this seems superficially plausible, if you drill down it’s not an explanation for the Canada/Australia imbalance. In fact, you make my point for me.

As you say, Canada has a number of very popular, “every street corner has a game” winter sports like hockey, skating and skiing, which are winter olympic events and so Canada should win winter olympic events in those sports. And it does.

The sports which Australians love, upon which there national focus, are cricket and three codes of football (League, Union and Australian Rules). These are the comparable popular, streetcorner games. None of these are even Olympic sports. So by your reasoning, Australia should win nothing.

But Australia does win olympic medals. It wins them in sports that are not the national focus. In sports that are small minority, like swimming and athletics and perhaps cycling, and indeed in sports so tiny that even describing them as “minority” gives an exaggerated impression (equestrian, shooting, boxing, rowing, canoeing, field hockey, weights, sailing, judo).

In short Australia wins medals in precisely the type of minority, non-focus sports that you excuse Canada from not winning.
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I’m not certain what your argument is. On the one hand, you appear to be saying Australia wins medals because of its national obsession with sports; on the other hand, that these particular sports are not in fact popular …

In the case of Canada, there are as I said two factors: popularity, and funding. These two go hand in hand. Hockey, for example, is both popular as a street-level game, and as a result of its popularity, attracts lots of funding; thus, the pool of athletes is large.

Moreover, I do not see any refutation of the basic point - that focus on one set of Olympics dilutes the pool of athletes and funding available for the other.

I know little of the situation in Australia. To what do you ascribe Australian success in tiny minority events like equestrian?

70

[QUOTE=suranyi]
As I mentioned above, I think even this premise is questionable. The one time Canada hosted the winter Olympics, Calgary 1988, they didn’t win a single gold medal.

Ed
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By that measure, Australia’s success in the summer Olympics is “questionable”; after all, they failed to win a single gold medal in Montreal. :wink:

Recent Olympics however demonstrate relatively consistent success - Canada had 24 medals in 2006 (5th place overall), 17 medals in 2002 (4th place overall), 15 medals in 1998 (4th place overall).

Obviously, in recent years Canada is doing okay for a comparatively small nation.

71

There is nothing wrong with Canada. The Olympics just needs new sports.

-Maple syrup drinking
-Hat wearing
-Snow shovelling
-Polite greetings
-Denim jacket wearing
-Talking about the weather
-Telling jokes that involve moose

If you could figure out how to make all of these team sports, Canada would be leading the medal count by now.

72

[QUOTE=Cisco]
There is nothing wrong with Canada. The Olympics just needs new sports…

If you could figure out how to make all of these team sports, Canada would be leading the medal count by now.
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Well, sure, those are nice, but not a one of them has anything to do with beer drinking. Bob and Doug McKenzie are not pleased, eh?

:smiley:

73

Okay, To get serious.

Given all the info I get from the US media, I lay the failure of Canada’s performance compared to the USA (you’d think we should get at least 10% of their medal count) on our education system.

Our high schools and universities (the schools the I and my daughters have experienced) and their alumni just don’t give a flying fuck about competitive sports.

For quite a few years, I’ve been involved with a local track and field club that has produced some fine athletes ( I’m not counting Pamela Anderson who once was a member). One of my daughters achieved a silver and bronze medal in discus and shotput at the BC summer games. Several of these athletes went on to US colleges on athletic scholarships. Seems that their alumni are providing money for these scholarships so that their schools can excel in sports. There’s scholarships for football, scholarships for basketball, scholarships for track, God, there must be scholarships for just about any sport. But you can’t start university in Canada on an athletic scholarship.

I understand that college football can draw 100,000 fans, more than an NFL game. I spent a week in Dallas a couple of Septembers ago where there was a huge section in the paper on the high school football games, another huge section on college ball and another section on NFL football.
Our unvirsity football programs draw less fans than our high schools
And cheerleading, seems to be highly competive in the States and more of a sport than anything I’ve experienced in Canada.

And marching bands. We import US high school marching band into our parades because we don’t seem to have any.

Our high school don’t hire coaches. We spend a couple of weeks playing at high jump and track, supervised by a teacher and try to qualify for the regional event and then no one knows what happens after that.

Our schools don’t take on hockey, that’s left for volunteer organizations

Our schools don’t take on soccer either.

You might say big deal, but I sort of envy the collective competitive energy that exists in American schools both for students and their alumni.

And that I believe translates into Olympic medals. Find the athletes when they are young and motivate them consistently throughout their development.

So, is the education system in Australia invested in sport as well?

I

74

[QUOTE=Spoons]
Well, sure, those are nice, but not a one of them has anything to do with beer drinking. Bob and Doug McKenzie are not pleased, eh?

:smiley:
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I saw a guy tumble down a small hill with his hands full of beer glasses once, and didn’t spill a drop. We would totally rule in that event. (Well, our stiffest competition might still be Australia. :smiley: )

75

[QUOTE=featherlou]
I saw a guy tumble down a small hill with his hands full of beer glasses once, and didn’t spill a drop. We would totally rule in that event. (Well, our stiffest competition might still be Australia. :smiley: )
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Real men don’t use glasses here sunshine. :slight_smile:

76

[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman]
And marching bands. We import US high school marching band into our parades because we don’t seem to have any.
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You do, and some fine drum corps too, but not in proportion to population.

The CFL paid for my daughter’s US university marching band (one of the biggest and best) to play at halftime of the the Grey Cup semifinals a couple of years ago. Is there no easy way to create pageantry from Canada’s own resources?

At too many schools, the sports programs become dominant over the academic side. It isn’t all to the good.

And that matters if and only if you want it to matter. The Games were never intended to be a way to establish national superiority, although a few nations (USSR, East Germany, now China) have established government-sponsored development programs to make them appear that way. The games are just about athletics. Anything more than that you don’t have to buy into.

77

[QUOTE=Cicero]
Real men don’t use glasses here sunshine. :slight_smile:
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Then I guess you wouldn’t do very well in that event then, would you? :slight_smile:

78

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned that while the hamster was taking a much needed break, Canada won 9 medals. This doesn’t’ surprise me at all because we always start slow and then win some stuff in the second week (I guess the sports Canada does well in fall later in the schedule).

So, currently, per capita we are actually a bit ahead of the USA (72); kicking China’s ass (67); sort of tied with Great Britain (27) and Germany (23) and miserably behind Australia (33).

Further, we’re right about where the COC thought we would be (16th place).

So, what the hell point am I trying to make? None really, except good for the Canadian folks that won medals - well done. Also, good for the non-Canadian folks that won medals - well done you too. In fact, well done everybody who’s talented enough to actually make it to the Olympics.

That’s it.

79

[QUOTE=Spoons]
Then I guess you wouldn’t do very well in that event then, would you? :slight_smile:
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But in the beer-can-crushing events, Australia would rule!

80

[QUOTE=Una Persson]
I’m more surprised by India - 1.1 billion people as a pool of athletes - nearly 1/6 the world - and only a single medal. Yes, I know the reasons why, but China has many of the same reasons and they’re in second place medal-wise (as of this posting…).
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As my uncle once said, they have all the wrong sports in the olympics for India. If they had events like rock throwing, bus chasing and rickshaw-dodging as sports, India would dominate! He also said Palestine and Lebanon would be serious threats in the rock throwing competition.