btw- before i’m officially named the ‘evil stepdad’ over the whipping thing, i’ve got to say that bare-bottom punishments are NEVER seen in our house. that strikes me as excessive. all of our punishments are through clothes, and only on the butt. to me, anything else is quite barbaric, and more for the humiliation factor than anything. i was not aware that this was the usual MO for whipping. and yes, according to my kids, it hurts more with my hand than the belt. i never do it in anger, and never draw back to do it, so i’ll assume it’s either a weight or leverage issue. that said, this punishment is harsh, and thankfully rare, in my house.
Diogenes-in Arkansas, most school districts send home a note for parents to sign releasing the principal to paddle (with a wooden paddle) as punishment for certain offenses. we have waived that for our son, as we prefer to handle punishment like that ourselves (i don’t fully trust the judgement of this principal), but just so you know, the laws do vary greatly.
food for thought- how many of you who are dead-set against corporeal punishment were on the receiving end of it as kids? i tend to think that this new aversion to physical punishment is more a result of our own bad memories of it than weighing its potential value to the child.
I had never really thought of bare bottomed spanking either, I was always spanked through clothes, as were my brothers. And my dad never drew back with the belt either, it hurt but I wasn’t being whipped for cryin’ out loud.
Dio, would a hand be considered an “object”? I’m Italian, and the older women would freak at hearing that, what with all of the “spatula swattings”
No, a hand is not an object. It means anything like a paddle, a stick, a belt, etc.
Stonebow, I got spanked. I got spanked with a belt. When I was alittle kid in Lousiana I got the paddle in school.
I think whipping a kid with a belt (and there’s no difference between “whipping” a kid with a belt and “spanking” a kid with a belt, that’s just bullshit) is backwards, stupid and wrong no matter how backwards the criminal law of a state may be.
Even spanking with a bare hand is pointless. Every study done on spanking shows that it has no beneficial effect whatever but often has negative effects.
I’ve seen quite a few kids who could really use a spanking, actually. Time outs can only do so much.
I’m sorry, but when I was 6 or 7 and was doing something bad, if I thought the only thing that would happen to me is I would have to stare at a wall for 10 minutes, it wouldn’t even slow me down. Now, the possibility of getting a spanking, that was something to make me think twice.
I just get really taken aback at all of this “spanking is going to fuck your kid up for life!” talk because I look at young children today (I used to deal with them on a very regular basis) and see what all this touchy feely “reason with your kid, don’t punish them” leads to: spoiled, uncontrollabe brats.
False dichotomy. There are lots of ways to discipline your children without beating them.
My wife and I do spank our children. That punishment is limited to situations where the child’s actions endanger themselves or others.
I can’t pretend that we’re perfect. But my model for discipline is the way we’ve handled ‘acting up’ in restaurants and movie theaters. This is one of the most common situations where you’ll see people complain about parents not controlling their children-but you’ll never see anyone complaining about our children. And they’ve never been spanked for acting like hellions in a restaurant, either.
The process was simple. 1. Set some rules that even a child can remember. (Eg. for restaurants, our rules are: a) Sit in your chair, eat your food, or talk quietly; b) The only acceptable reason to get up is to walk to the restroom.) After the first violation of any of the rules, the child is immediately removed from the restaurant/theater. They get to go over the rules outside with Mom or Dad; when they have calmed down and expressed understanding and agreement with the rules, they can return. After the second violation, they go home. Food already ordered is changed to a ‘to go’ order, and the outing is over.
Sounds like a pain for Mom & Dad (and the non-misbehaving brother) to lose their fun outing? Maybe. But I’ve had to go to that final stage three times in seven years of raising two energetic boys. And those three outings that were completely killed by the process are more than made up for by the hundreds that could have been made miserable by the slowly escalating annoyance of difficult children. And by the number of friends and strangers who have commented on how well-behaved our boys are in those situations. They walk in, order their meal, don’t cry and scream and yell and run around, eat their food, don’t throw anything, whisper if they have something to say during the movie, and basically behave as well as or better than the adults I see. Some people wonder if they’re just naturally well-behaved children, to which I say, “Ha-ha-ha-ha! (Sob.)” It’s been some work to get there (stage 1 used to happen a lot-I’ve carried a screaming child outside more than a few times, then sat outside with him for fifteen minutes while he calmed down), but they’ve learned how to behave, without getting their hides tanned …
Oh, I agree completely, my parent’s did that with me when I was small (I still have memories of sitting in the car when my family was inside the 4 Flames enjoying dinner - do they still have the 4 flames?)
I’m not talking about spanking for every little thing, of course it’s reserved for the really bad instances, and never in public. That’s humiliating. Not to mention risking some people running to the payphone and calling CPS when they see any little butt swatted. :rolleyes:
I just think that too many people are seeing this issue as way too black and white when there is a hell of a lot of grey in there as well.
""I know she likes her flowers, I like mine, but get fucking real here ! When you are dealing with 5-11 year old kids, there is a possibility that they could fall in the garden. If it’s so damn important to you, put a big fence up. “”
When I was growing up, it was perfectly acceptable, even expected, for every parent to monitor and disipline each neighborhood child. I had many a neighbor threaten to beat one of our asses if we did this or that and quess what…we DIDN"T do it! Your neighbor was letting your kids know (in a not to polite way) to be careful of her flowers so there will NOT be a possibility of your little beasts falling into her garden. Why should she put a fence up? Are your kids incapable of having self control? If they were told to stay out of the garden and fell in it anyway, they deserve an ass beating. However, I will say, it should be given by you and not the neighbor.
You are probably one of those parents that take your kids side over the teachers too. I am still smiling over the post who asked if they should be given a “time out”. Although some didn’t get the sarcasm.
When I was a kid, I hated a time out. You have to think in kid terms-what was worse than sitting and doing nothing for five or ten minutes and watching your friends squeal and have fun?
I do like the idea of making them watch Barbie videos, though.
Out of curiosity, dragongirl, how do you know this woman beat her son with a belt? I would report that, personally, if there is sufficient evidence. . . Beating someone with a belt for stepping on flowers is quite excessive.
Without meeting dragongirls kids and the flower lady I’d give them the benefit of the doubt that they are just kids, not “little beasts”. Maybe the lady with the flowers was making an empty threat in hopes of rescuing her garden.
I used to tell my kids “If you don’t stop/If you do that again I’m going to cut off one of your feet!”. They knew I wouldn’t really do it but they got the poin’t. Sometimes I’d tell them they’d have that foot for dinner. (put your foot in your mouth)
I would also get a wee bit angry hearing about the threat as well though. I would never dream of threatening anyone elses kid with anything more than bannishment from our Eden. More than that is taboo.
Belts or other objects vs. the hand. Using a weapon(belts etc.) is wrong in my opinion. My stepfather was talented with the belt, it was much worse than the open hand but not as bad as his fist. His belt when doubled up after a while would make you bleed. I couldn’t where shorts because of him. Any infraction, like not making school lunches for my siblings because I woke us up too late(my responsibility from age 9) resulted in a whipping. I got whipped a lot. He should have been reported. Put in jail.
Then he started punching.
At age 13 I hit back and kncked him down. I never got hit again. That’s when restriction started. By age 15 I had enough years of restriction that I’d get out on good behavior after I turned 18. Result? I said screw it. I’m going to play baseball(not little league, they would never aprove that) instead of watching it out my back window. I wasn’t a bad kid. I didn’t drink, do drugs, sneak out at night or even skip school or steal.
My kids? I spank their hands with 2 fingers. I make a big deal about giving them a lecture and holt their hand with one of mine and hold the spanking hand way up in the air. ( time out of 10 I never make the strike, when I strike it is never more than 3 times. I haven’t had to do this at all for at least 3 years.
What I’ve found to be more effective is when I deny time on the PC games or when I throw away a prized toy (I actually hide it and pretend to get another later as a reward later. I also say “Well, no movie today!” and things like that.
I am sure Dragongirls little beasts aren’t any worse then my little beasts or any other “beastly” kid between the age of 1 and when they get out of college. Just a family expression.
There’s a book & lecture series with some childrearing suggestions along these lines that you can find here. The basic idea is that you want to teach the concept of consequences as a logical result of actions. When the child does something wrong, there should be negative consequences that can be seen as a natural result of the action. (As opposed to an artificial consequence decreed by parental fiat.) With practice, and especially as children get older, a lot of the parental teaching is a matter of simply not protecting the children from [all of] the consequences of their actions.
Getting hit is rarely a natural consequence of an action, except maybe for starting fights … One of the hardest ones for me is their suggestion for bedtime enforcement. It’s really simple-you get them up as early in the morning as they’re supposed to be awake. Their natural bodily needs for sleep will eventually (they say) program their sleep habits to end their day at the right time. I can never seem to let it go when they’re bouncing on their beds at 10PM, though.
And there’s useful training for parental expectations on the flip side of that, too. If you can’t think of any natural negative consequences for disobeying the rule, you should probably question why you have that rule in the first place.
I also read it as the dragongirl’s daughter overreacting by running and crying for being told to stay out of the flowerbed instead of just staying out of the flowerbed.
oy. look, if you don’t want anyone speaking harshly to you child, that’s great. then you need to supervise that child ALL THE TIME and not let them go over to anyone else’s house where (Og forbid) they are subject to another person’s right to not have their stuff torn up.
if another adult came and tore up my flower bed, i could sue for damages, or have them escorted off my property for vandalism or both. but when it comes to telling a child that there may be consequences for doing it…that’s assault?
talk to me when the other parent actually hits your kid. harsh words do not a (reasonable) lawsuit make, especially when the ‘victim’ is not respecting the rights of the other parent.
and yes, i know…your kids are/will be ‘different.’ :rolleyes:
