I am referring to this thread where a poster asks if an online service (allofmp3.com) is legal. Samclem steps up with his gavel in hand and declares that the service is illegal, without a cite, clearly having not RTFA:
It’s not like they didn’t cite US code or anything, or that three established posters had not fairly directly iterated the point that the service is legal (and what better than for the sake that “where our host is” people are innocent until proven guilty…fucking right!).
I think it’s fine that Samclem has a differing opinion, and I am certainly not asking that anyone take the referenced website as an authority. I simply encourage him to start a thread in Great Debates, or better yet, the pit, where cites are not required and you can declare your not-well-founded opinion as if it were fact. The only way you can do such a thing in GQ is if you are abusing your moderator powers.
This same thing happened to me a while back when I posted a thread about suicide. I had to actually cite an article by Cecil that stated that suicide is not, and never has been, illegal in the USA.
So you’re believing this site the same way you believe the Encyclopedia Britannica, the Associated Press, the New York Times, CNN, and even The Straight Dope?
The site that your so-called legal opinion was on is a ringtone site in Amsterdam. It has nothing to do with allofmp3. My best (admittedly bad) Dutch translation of the front page second paragraph says:
“For all information about music downloading, P2P programs, and mp3s, we can help you on our new internet site.” (Coldfire (or any Dutch Dopers), if you see this, please accept my apologies for any bad translation and correct as needed.)
Consider the source. Music downloading. P2P programs. Closed thread. End of discussion.
On preview:treis, you’re absolutely right about our disclaimer. Do you believe everything you read here? 99.999% may be good advice, but there’s the off chance that some bad info filters in. We have to CYA. If you’re insinuating that legal advice given by an Amsterdam ringtone site is somehow superior or even comparable to the Straight Dope, then I know of some gentlemen in Nigeria that would like to give you 35% of $28.4 million for your help in getting the money out of the country.
Rico, Allofmp3 has nothing to do with P2P. If downloading music is means to close a thread, then all threads discussing iTunes need to go as well. The source in question merely happens to be one that another poster posted (RTFT, it wasn’t my source). The topic has been discussed widely on the Internet, I won’t belabor the point by linking you to Google.
What does every lawyer say in any thread that can be construed as legal advice? “I am not your attorney and this is not legal advice.” A disclaimer is simple legal CYA and should not be construed to diminish the accuracy of the site.
As far as that site being a ringtone DL site (as though that somehow makes it less accurate) it also appears to review mp3 d/l sites.
Closing that thread kind of struck me the wrong way too.
All the OP wanted to know was whether the site was legal, a legitimate question since nobody in this thread seems to know for sure either.
Their site is down for maintenance right now, but I’ve heard a bit about it. It’s a website (like iTunes), you pay money to them (like iTunes), and you get to download a song (like iTunes), the iTunes domain being registered by Apple in Cupertino, CA, USA.
It’s perfectly possible that this service is outside the law in the US, but possible it isn’t either. As someone who got ‘warned’ by a mod for posting about music file sharing when I was actually posting information about using packet shaping to prevent it, I think it’s reasonable to think the mods should cool it with the quick-draw.
Your translation is spot-on, FWIW. I have no opinion on the legality of the site in question, but should point out that the differences in copyright laws between the US and the Netherlands are minimal, from this IANAL perspective.
So the first half of an answer to the original GQ thread is “Yes, the operators of allofmp3.com are operating within the law as it applies to them”. Samclem smacked the thread down before the valid question of whether it’s legal to download from that site to America could be answered. And I don’t think there is an answer, not until it’s tested in court.
Holy Crap! The moderators err on the side of caution and shut down most threads that might be illegal, especially in the realm of copyright violations! Why I’ve never heard of anything so preposterous. This could be a first for the Dope. And those poor people will be at a loss to find any other place on the internet to discuss these matters. A travesty I tell you, and my heart weeps.
Exactly. I’ve seen rumors that Russian law on age of consent permits children to perform sexually at an age under 18 (16 was cited once), and that there are therefore Russian porn sites which permit performances by 16- and 17-year-olds.
And viewing such sites from the U.S. is grounds for an arrest on obtaining and possessing child pornography.
No, I actually read all of the cites/sites that were offered in that thread. I especially liked this response from the Russian–
My reading of everything indicates to me that you can’t download from another country at ten cents/song just because it’s legal in that country. And maybe it’s only my opinion, but give me a legal cite, from a US court, that it’s legal to download copyrighted songs, even for your personal use, from a source which is not abiding by the law as it’s enforced in the US.
I think my opinion is well-founded. I think that the opinions expressed in that thread were less so. Maybe someone will come along here and offer a legal opinion as to why I was wrong. But until then, I was doing what the Chicago reader “hired” me to do, IMHO.
Does anyone posting in this thread actually believe that this site is legal? You can’t possibly be that gullible.
Anyway, here’s your cite. United States Copyright Act of 1976, Sec. 106 (17 U.S.C. Sec. 106) states, in relevant part:
(Emphasis added)
Now, if those that think allofmp3**.com is legal want to argue the point, by all means make your case. But obviously quoting a statement that seems so clearly bullshit by a stie owner isn’t going to carry the weight you need.
The Copyright Act is available in pdf here and in html here.
If we’re sticking to disclaimers you’ll soon find yourself fresh out of references.