No, but that’s not the problem. The problem is that the people in charge have no interest in fighting terrorism when they can exploit it instead. The problem is that it’s stupid to hand more power to people who not only might abuse that power, but who will make a point of it. And the problem is that terrorism isn’t nearly such of a threat that it’s necessary to give up our freedom or rights to deal with it. More Americans, and far more non-Americans have died because we gave Bush the power to do what he wanted after 9-11 than died in 9-11. The “cure” you propose is much worse than the disease and doesn’t even work; our enemies are stronger now and we are weaker.
If you think I’m the only one to consider the Republicans the American version of the Taliban, or that there isn’t plenty of reason to believe that then you are deluding youself. The American Right and fundie Muslims agree on all sorts of things, and co-operate quite often on issues like abortion and homosexuality.
And have you considered that another attack will discredit those who oppose such methods in the minds of the vast majority of Americans? We will never know what attacks have already been prevented in the past six years. We do know that the security methods already in place are obviously effective in preventing a 9/11 scale attack because another one hasn’t happened.
Those of you who can’t bring yourself to admit this are welcome to comfort yourself with the idea that “the terrorists probably haven’t tried”. I’m sure that’s it. They stumbled onto “Daily Kos” on the internet, saw the light and now plan to join the ACLU as soon as their citizenship papers clear.
Many words and much bandwidth are consumed here and elsewhere by people struggling over the high ground of “truth”, Luci. You are smart enough to know that if another 9/11 scale attack happens that what I have been saying in this thread will come to pass. It will be a dark chapter in our history of being an open and tolerant society, but it will happen. If thousands of Americans are killed again, civil libertarians will long for the “good old days” of 2002. And the only thing that can stop it is for the Wahabbi’s to come to their senses and join the 21st century.
Starting on 9/11/2001, i i began jerking off to manga every day in an attempt to prevent future terrorist attacks. The absence of attacks on US soil during that period demonstrates that my method works.
So, if this is the case, remind me again why we need another attack to wake people up?
I get the feeling that you’d like to see another attack just for the hell of it.
They have also been entirely effective in preventing elephant stampedes at the Mall of America. What you got there is a* post hoc ergo non sequiter*: the conclusion doesn’t follow, and even if it did, it still wouldn’t make any damn sense.
You know good and well you can’t prove a negative, which is probably why you stamp your foot when you say it.
Oh, I very much doubt that, I think it more likely their plans fell apart or they were ratted out, there’s good money to be made ratting out terrists, I have no doubt. 9/11 should never have happened, we were done in by the Keystone Terrorists with a plot Tom Clancy would have laughed out of the room. It only worked because we were even dumber than they were. We’ve had airplanes hi-jacked for fifty years now, and the goddam cockpit doors weren’t locked! How dumb is that?
It also helped that in 1941 there was a definite enemy. The United States was definitively aware of those behind Pearl Harbor and fought for retribution against them. At the time we were fighting an enemy as opposed to an action (terrorism). It is IMPOSSIBLE (read as theoretically and in practice: Not gonna happen) to end all terrorism.
If people of one particular religion were all that were trying to kill us and maiming are society as we know it, there is a very simple HISTORICALLY TESTED solution. Just slap some yellow stars on them, gather them in work camps to do jobs we dont want to do. Scientifically test people of this religion to see why they’re different and inferior, as they MUST be to not believe EXACTLY what we do. Then kill them, so they can’t kill us first. That should get them all in a tizzy and solve our terrorist problem.
Please, I must have missed out on these lessons, I would sincerely like you to thoroughly explain them to me.
Now, we DO have the Patriot Act & the NSA surveillance program and the CIA is interrogating people. IF by some horrible circumstance another 9/11 type event does occur, would that not prove these actions aren’t working?. . .
Now before you reply with “This means we need to increase said programs etc. etc. etc.” at what point are YOU willing to allow it to increase until you decide “You know what, I’m willing to concede certain things so I can hold onto my rights.” Are you willing to enact a “telescreen” type policy from 1984? That will sure find out who the terrorists are and stopped those darned squabling chipmunks… I for one, would rather take up arms on my own than ‘slide down that slippery slope’ and concede all those rights to the government.
I disagree, what you want is ‘ideological form’. I want arguments, I want fervor in dissent, I want wars of WORDS in congress, I want all views to be shown and let the process of democracy find the right path. I do not want everyone on a singular path following the same ideas. I WANT aggressive measures of fighting terrorism. I want those responsible for 9/11 to fall. What I don’t want is to invade a country that “has” WMD’s to stop them from attacking us before they plan to, but just brush under the rug nations who are openly testing weapons with the goal of being able to attack us. The invasion of Afghanistan was what I wanted, to find Ossama. He is in a cave somewhere, but we got Hussein (it’s okay, we can just blame 9/11 on him and pretend we found his WMD’s)
And in fact, i HATE my Aunt Marge, so I’m not afraid of the NSA, CIA, Defense Department listening to my conversations with them. What I am afraid of is the United States going down my paranoid fantasy of the slippery slope. Where parents accuse children of being the enemy, where people are held in court for voicing opinions opposite those in power. Where media starts becoming censored, where an idea becomes off limits. I realize, this can NEVER, EVER happen though. So my fantasy about this needs to come to an end. . .
. . .
. . .
Oh, it can happen? What was McCarthyism ? Read up.
May I be the [del]first[/del] second American to [del]shake your hand[/del] salute you for your service.
You clearly deserve a medal…or a large box of tissues!
No, they stopped trying because they WON. We’ve handed them victory after victory. Short of electing Osama President we’ve done everything they could have desired.
And we know that the “security measures” haven’t prevented much of anything because they are a joke, mostly directed at the Democrats and the ACLU and such; and because it’s impossible to stop a determined attacker short of instituting a Soviet style police state.
The only thing stopping a terrorist from walking into a mall and setting off a bomb or opening fire with a submachine gun is that they aren’t interested.
And, of course, we’re in Iraq to stop those Wahabbi bastards from…
What? No! Really? The Iraqis weren’t Wahabbi? The SAUDIS are Wahabbi?! But the Saudis are our friends, aren’t they? Bush says so! Must be true!
Seriously, bin Laden is Wahabbi. Al Qaeda is Wahabbi. The Taliban was/is Wahabbi-influenced.
Where does the Wahabbi sect hold the most power? Iraq? Nope! Saudi Arabia. How many of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi? All of them? Most of them? Nope! None of them. They were mostly Saudi nationals.
Why are we in Iraq, then? Why are we throwing bodies against the walls to try to keep a toehold on making the country at least officially USA-friendly?
I suppose it’s easy to guzzle the Kool-Aid when one doesn’t actually WANT to be a member of the reality-based community…
Frankly, talking about America forgetting who the enemy is while supporting all the things this administration has done to make us LESS safe, and then disingenuously ignoring Iraq as if it were a minor sidelight to our “War on Terror” rather than the main focus, is hand-wavery of the highest order.
Am I the only one who reads Stu’s piece as a whiny kid on the playground that just lost a kickball game? Do over man, that one didn’t count!
He isn’t willing to fess up and say that GW squandered worldwide good will, started an unneeded war, and has had everything he has touched turn to shit. Instead he wants to go back to that magical Bush with a bullhorn on top of a pile of rubble, and start again from where he fucked up.