I’ve never slept “well”, and I’ve always been a morning person
I don’t particularly care which it is: if she’s sleeping 11 hours or going to sleep at 3am - neither are healthy and neither should be encouraged or made allowances to.
Today mum wanted help with the housework, she was told yesterday to help, the housework is started mid morning. There are not specific “who does what” but the team chugs through what needs to be done.
I’m not there - I leave the house for work at 7:30
Getting her up for school is a constant and ongoing battle.
Everyone checks out from time to time, As others have said, this is a stressful time for kids. Talk to her about it (with the part where you need her “to feel the pain” of her indolence)
Give her your best advice and let her make her own decisions (and face her own consequences). Speak to her as if she’s a beloved member of your family.
Or even like an adult human.
Go back and read what DinoR said in Post #31.
Blatantly untrue. 11 hours a night is a bit much and might warrant seeing a sleep specialist. But there’s certainly nothing unhealthy about falling asleep at 3. Unhealthy is forcing your daughter into sleep deprivation because of some weird attitudes you have. Also unhealthy is treating these as some kind of moral failing.
I’m happy my parents didn’t have the same attitude as you. They let me do my chores on my schedule. They reminded me that mowing the lawn at noon was going to be a lot hotter than at 9, but they let me choose. And I chose noon, because the heat was a lot less unpleasant than lack of sleep. Give your daughter the same options. She can do her share of the housework at some other time.
Well here’s the thing
I came here asking for advice on what could be said to her, what sort of “proof” could be shown that
a) not “all kids” are allowed to sleep until noon (despite her claims)
b) sleeping till noon is not healthy
I’m trying to talk to her like a rational human - “here are my expectations of you, here’s what I want done”
In my mind - expecting someone out of bed by 9am (excepting special circumstances) is normal, reasonable and a part of life.
If I were home, I’d be getting her out of bed, I’m not home, I’m at work.
have sent a whole bunch of stuff that too much sleep is bad of health, and that having irregular sleep patterns is bad also
I am hoping to strengthen that by tapping on the collective wisdom of the dope
Instead I’m getting “teens will be teens” (boys will be boys?)
Just accepting that teens are supposed to be rebellious and sleep till noon is not something I feel comfortable with.
I’ve always believed that people will live up to or down to your expectations - my expectation is that people are out of bed, happy and productive during the day - not sleeping till noon like the proverbial moocher who can’t hold a job
“what is there to get up for” is not something that I can live for - it too quickly becomes habit and self reinforcing if anything more than the occasional one-off (and it’s not like I never let her sleep in)
Expecting people to be out of bed when the sun is shining is weird?
Asking that people keep to some sort of regular sleep / wake cycle is an unhealthy expectation?
If I come home in the evenings and ask her to complete what’s expected eg: practise piano - the complaint is that it’s evening and time to relax. According to what you’re saying, I’m also not allowed to have the expectation that these things are done is in the earlier part of the day?
My parents woke my up 7 days a week in high school by no later than 8 am. When I went on vacations with my best friends family their dad would blare reveille every morning 1 hour after day break (during the summer no less) to ensure we had full days of vacation. Now that I’m a parent I let my kids sleep in but we give them no quarter on noise or access to their room unless they are sick. Once my kids are older they will be up working, playing sports or doing homework by 10 am every day. Being awake makes you productive.
Why?
Is there an actual, explainable reason why chores must be done in the late morning/early afternoon?
i’ve been trying to think of one, for ordinary household chores, and failing. Cows and dairy goats need to be milked on schedule, or they’ll be in pain and may get mastitis. And some specific household might milk at 11 AM and 11 PM instead of the more common times. But this isn’t a matter of dairy farming; or even of needing to get a field planted before dark, or before the rain starts. Why does it matter what time of day the laundry gets done (you’ve got to be using a dryer, if you hung it outside you wouldn’t be waiting till midday at this time of year), or the dusting, or changing the washers in the kitchen sink faucet? If she’s not awake to deal with the breakfast dishes, have her do the dinner cleanup instead. Vacuuming shouldn’t be done when most of the household is asleep, because it’s noisy; but if you’re all up at once between 2PM and 8PM, why can’t she vacuum then instead of at noon? You, or whoever’s doing the cooking, shouldn’t be expected to produce meals on multiple schedules; but 15 is more than old enough to do her own cooking. And some of yours while she’s at it; but she could cook supper, it doesn’t need to be breakfast.
And, come to think of it, what happens when school is in session? Are you hauling her out of school so that she can do her chores in the middle of the day, instead of after school’s out?
Not everybody does well on the same amount of sleep. Teens generally need more than older people, and may become temporary night owls for a while even if they’re not that way lifelong. And yes, some people are that way all their lives. It’s not a moral failing. We’re getting work done at night long after the larks are asleep.
You’re acting like it’s totally under her control. Maybe it is, and maybe it isn’t. If she’s like I was, then the choice was between going to bed at 3 vs. going to bed at midnight and laying awake for three hours. And so forcing me to wake at 7:00 meant I only got four hours of sleep. The rising sun has zero effect on me waking up.
It’s reasonable to tell your daughter that she needs to do her chores, practice piano, etc. And it’s reasonable to tell her that she can’t do noisy things when others are trying to sleep. But there’s more than enough time in the day for her to arrange those things. I don’t know what kind of housework you’re talking about, but most stuff doesn’t require everyone to be working at the same time.
This is a fact—teens need more sleep than people of any other age. So by forcing her into an 8 or 9 hour schedule you are forcing her into sleep deprivation
This is also a fact—teens commonly find their bodies wanting to keep them up late into the night and sleeping during the day.
You want to take these facts and make them into moral failings. You’re not doing anyone any favors here, particularly yourself.
Why? I truly don’t understand this (and, like I said above, I was a kid who was up at 8:30 a.m. at the latest as a teenager). I mean, why the hell should I care? If my wife wanted to sleep in until 11 a.m. on days she doesn’t have a strict schedule to keep, I certainly wouldn’t bug her about it. I still know adults my age (~45) who sleep in until 11 a.m. when life allows it.
Why is it a big deal to be up at 9 a.m.?
Yes. I’m at my most productive between midnight and 3 am. And my least productive before 11 when I’d still be sleeping if some jerk hadn’t woken me up. I can also acknowledge that not everyone has the same habits, and make allowances for that fact.
Ah, yes: “Help me convince people that I’m right.”
(If I’m not, I don’t want to know about it.)
This is so strange to me. Of course being awake makes you productive. But what difference does it make WHEN you are awake?
Wow. So, like, I haven’t been on the Dope for a *long *time, but…unless things have changed DRASTICALLY while I’ve been away, it’s incredibly rare for every single response to agree. When it happens, it’s really a sign that you, the OP, need to reconsider where you’re coming from. That kind of consensus just doesn’t happen on the regular.
You came in here looking for people to tell you you’re right. But you’re not. Simple as that. There’s no moral failing in sleeping until noon when you don’t have school or responsibilities that must be taken care of in the morning (like, say, walking the dog, feeding the cats, making breakfast for your younger sibling - these are time sensitive chores. Vacuuming is not.) There is absolutely nothing odd about a 15 year old girl being a bit self absorbed during a literal national emergency where the primary thing she needs to do is the exact opposite of what teenagers are developmentally disposed to do: hang out with their friends and peer group. The example you are setting is not that of a disciplined upright moral character, but of a nag, a drag, and a despot.
Hey, Why Not! Where’ve you been?! Good to see you around!
I don’t get all this resistance to being up in the morning
quite regularly I had issues falling asleep at the same age and would spend my nights reading
I still needed to be up in the mornings
Is it really so unreasonable to expect that she’s up sometime around 9am?
As to why - because it’s daytime, isn’t that reason enough?
The issue is that this is the collective wisdom you’re getting:
- Your teenaged daughter’s entire social structure is off kilter right now
- Your daughter is probably upset about this, and it’s possible that she’s depressed
- As long as she isn’t sleeping half the day, it’s probably not a big deal
- Your personal feeling that “sleeping in is lazy” is a terrible habit may be overreacting
…and since none of that fits with what you want to hear (“yes, you’re right, here are more rational arguments for you to show to your daughter!”), we’re all the bad guys now.
shrug
No it doesn’t. If I’m a awake and exhausted I get nothing done. Or worse, shit gets undone by mistakes.