It may not be widespread, and it shouldn’t be done, but it is done. There was an article in our local paper about an area church that had really upset some members – I guess former members now – by calling them on the carpet for not tithing. They were given an ultimatum to contribute more or leave the church. Many (most? all?) of those so confronted chose to leave, but resented it deeply.
This is in a sizable metropolitan area. The church may not be affiliated with any denomination, but if it is it’s one of the more conservative ones.
If you can, contact the Pastor. In our denomination we often encourage the elderly to slow and control their desire to give. To draw down savings? I would more make the approach “let that money sit and ask your kids/family to consider donating 10% after you are gone. Don’t write us in; leave it to God and His place in their lives and hearts.”
Nobody is physically or legally forcing this lady to give but, churches are not always gentle in their requests. I don’t know the exact situation with this church, what was said or promised, but there is no doubt they have tied her everlasting salvation to those dollars. She feels like she HAS to give 10% because she has been told for her whole life that that is a requirement. I see a giant leach on her back that she refuses to remove. She would listen to a preacher in this case but not a (non-religious) family member.
It’s a smallish church in a large metro area, Presbyterian. With the elderly that doesn’t necessarily mean they are interacting with a lot of people. She sits in a retirement home all day. No church rep has ever visited or inquired where she moved that we know of. The tithing is automatic I suspect.
She is already leaving everything to the church. I’m only talking about the monthly payments.
I think this is the essence of the problem. Of course we can force the situation but that would cause her pain. It sounds like some churches recognized the problem at least.
For those who say ‘it’s her money:’ That’s the point, it isn’t her money anymore. I would think an organization that claims to be charitable would have some mechanism to stop themselves from abusing the elderly. A couple of people have suggested contacting the preacher, which we will try. I expect to be laughed at.
Back to an earlier question: is the pastor aware of her situation? In our synagogue monthly newsletter there’s a note that says please make the rabbis or staff aware if someone is in the hospital, or in need of something. I’m not sure what you mean by a “small congregation,” but ours is only about 1,500 households, and they still ask the members to help keep the rabbis informed. By all means, talk to the pastor. S/He will probably be mortified to find out that this woman is still giving at that level. Presbyterians aren’t exactly money-grubbing, mega-church televangelists.
I attended Methodist and Baptist churches in my misspent youth and nobody forced me to tithe. It was just made clear that God will make that judgment later, and he likes 10%. You know, no pressure.
I would say members especially. Charity is nice and all, but you take care of your own first.
Last February my brother and I flew to Seattle to attend the services of our favorite aunt who had died (she was 98). She was deeply faithful as was one of her two sons; they belonged to the same church along with the daughter-in-law. During the service, besides the family members, there were about a half dozen members of the church attending. The son was disappointed, saying sotto voce, “After all the money she and we’ve donated, you’d think there would have been more.”
I thought, So why were you donating? To further the good works the church you love is doing, or to be seen donating?
Just because the pastor is reviving the tithes doesn’t mean the pastor can refuse or excuse their payment the same way that he couldn’t authorize murder and stealing. The commandment comes from God not the pastor. See Malachi 3 for why she may not want to give up the promised blessings. Also see Luke 21 for the story of the widows mite.
My father is and has always been a fundamentalist religious nut job. He will “tithe” till the day he dies; otherwise, I guess, he will go to hell, which would be a shame at this point. He is now 90 years old and lives in a nursing home. He is on Medicaid, and his pension and Social Security go straight to the nursing home. Medicaid allows him $20 per month for incidental expenses, and I think that is what he considers as income. Some of it (maybe $5) is always given to a religious organization.
It costs about $80,000 annually to live in the nursing home. Additionally, my siblings and I spend thousands every year to provide him with what the nursing home does not: nice clothing, subscriptions, stamps and stationery supplies, quality personal supplies, etc. The home offers a personal shopper who will pick things up at Walmart for patients who give them cash to do so. In the past, when it was inconvenient for me to buy and send Dad something he wanted, I’d send him cash. The cash was always given to his religion. He no longer gets cash from me.
I offer my story as an example of the mindset of tithers. Usually, they are not being pressured by their church to tithe. They tithe because they firmly believe it is God’s will. If they run out of money, God will take care of them. Dad thanks God for what he has; he does not thank his offspring who do the giving. God will take care of them too.
She gets her monthly income. The amount is roughly enough to cover the retirement home payment with a little left over for food. She pays bills, tithes and probably sends money a bunch of other places. People have expenses. Then the retirement home gets paid. The shortfall comes from her savings which is finite. When that runs out she still has income to pay most of that, just not all of it, like the big one.
She values her independence and controlling her finances is a part of that. She just has an expensive blind spot, I think. A spot that a leader she had faith in could best point out to her, if he were the charitable sort.
ioioio, I feel for you. That’s probably where we’re headed. Nursing care is so expensive already that tithes don’t make or break a situation, it’s just a substantial amount in this case.
This is exactly how my mother thinks. She is still fortunately in her home (which has been paid for) but her meager SS money doesn’t go far. She depends on family and friends to help her out. But any time someone gives her cash, she gives 10% to the church. (I am the co-signer on her checking account to keep an eye on her.) She will never stop doing this. It’s what God wants. And apparently God takes care of her by having everyone else take care of her. I’ve instructed family members to give her gift cards instead of cash. She doesn’t have a clue how those work so it hasn’t occurred to her that they are cash.
My local sales tax is 9%. No one has grabbed pitchforks and stormed the capital yet.
If someone wants to support their church then that’s their business.
I’ve never been associated with a church that enforces tithing. The offering plate is passed and you donate what you can. No one knows if it’s ten percent or ten dollars.
I understand there are many people and businesses that prey on seniors.
Life insurance proved to be the biggest scam for my grandmother. She had over seven policies. All of them very small that paid little. The premiums were cumilatively costing more than the pay out.
I’m not sure what is the answer. Unless it reaches a point where the senior just can’t take care of their affairs. That’s a very touchy subject to broach with anyone.
Whether 10% is a lot or not depends a lot on how it’s calculated. That 9% is on what you spend, not on your total income without taking any deductibles into account. And the situation is at the point where that 10% is going to start coming out of other people’s pockets.
My mother is free to do whatever she wants with her money. But not with mine.
You are asking about this from a financial perspective, but there’s another issue as well. You didn’t say anything about the woman’s religious beliefs or affiliations, but it’s quite possible her relatives could wind up subsidizing views to which they object.
The organizations to which my father gives money would be quite happy to forcefully suppress all views other than their own. If they could, they would burn me as a witch. It’s upsetting to know that whenever I help out my father, I’m helping to support these people.
The alternative is that I stop giving to my father. This would put an added burden on my siblings. If they also quit giving, Dad would have a pretty miserable existence. The bottom line seems to be that we don’t want that.
My mom gets a little over $900 social security monthly. So she gives almost $100 to the church. That is a lot when you are living on so little!
She gets a box at the first of the year with 12 envelopes in it for her monthly tithe. The first of each month she sends a check. When she was in the hospital a few years back, the most important thing on her mind was making sure I sent that check in. I have no idea what the official line at her church is, but she absolutely believes that she must do this.