A situation has come up at work with someone I work closely with. It’s just the two of us in our department, so I’m the only one she has to vent to. She is in her early 60’s, as is her husband. They have three adult children who all live on their own. I have worked with this woman for 8 years, and in that time her husband has been mostly unemployed. He’s been employed for the last year or so at a minimum-wage job doing janitorial work. Co-worker probably makes about 15.00 an hour or so.
They lost their home several years ago to foreclosure, and have been living in various low-rent places ever since, including a year or so with her daughter, son-in-law and kids. She came to me yesterday and said they are being evicted from the house they are currently renting due to getting behind in the rent.
Without coming right out and directly asking for money, they’re always telling hard-luck stories, and people have done so much for them. Everyone I know has decided that they are the cause of most of their own problems, and have ceased the handouts.
They are very much church-going people, and faithfully tithe no matter what. She is always talking about how they have no money for this or that, and how very little she can spend on groceries etc. My question for those who tithe is how bad does it have to get before you use that money for the necessities in your own life?
I just don’t understand how anyone thinks that giving 10% of your income to a church makes sense when you can’t even take care of yourself.
It’s kind of a personal decision. I’m pretty much in the camp that any Christian church that teaches you tithe a flat 10% has got the proverbial board stuck in their eye while they pick at the speck in yours. Give what you’re enabled to give. The poor woman who gave a penny was highly praised; we’d be hard-pressed the put a percentage on it, but the meaning seems clear to me, that the act of sacrifice was more important than the percentages or the total amount.
I think tithing has to be looked at in the bigger picture of being a good steward with your resources. Tithing 10% and complaining about being poor might be the sign of a faithful person, but it might also be the sign of someone who needs to downsize their house and kick the Starbucks habit.
For me personally, 10% is a number I have aspired to, but usually have not met. The first time in my life that I stopped tithing altogether was in 2010, and I haven’t resumed it yet. The recession hit exactly as I was putting a lot of money out to grow my business and it was a real double whammy. There are a couple of different issues that will affect when I restart tithing, but one of those issues is that I’ll pay down about $50,000 of debts first. When those are gone, I’ll have a lot of extra money every month that can go to a variety of other places.
What strikes me in the OP is how she, as someone who gives regularly to the church, is sounding quite ungrateful and unhappy.
You didn’t mention what her religion is, but if she’s a faithful Christian then she has many blessings in her life - no matter how crappy life is, how down on your luck you are, things can always be worse and they can also be much worse than she (I, anyone else) has it right now. If she chooses to look at her blessings she will find them, but if she focuses on the negative then that’s what she’ll see. She is forgiven and Jesus died for her sins. He died for all’s sins.
Tithing Christians are supposed to give cheerfully. If she cannot do that then she probably should stop giving and also reexamine her faith, because I’m guessing she might also be blaming God for her troubles.
But, she might not be a Christian, she might be of a different religion.
People have to make their own decisions about that, but I’m not going to subsidize someone else’s religion, so as long as someone is tithing, I’m not contributing. I would try to find the kindest, most empathetic way of saying that. Of course, since they’re not outright asking for help, I wouldn’t have to say anything other than suggest that they could apply some of the money they donate to dealing with their own situation.
That said, I doubt that stopping tithing would change their situation. Yes, I’m sure it’s very difficult to make ends meet on a small budget. But in the words of Micawber, “Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” That’s true at any income level, twenty pounds or two hundred thousand.
Seriously, I’d suggest they ask their pastor what to do.
Part of the purpose of tithing is to give the church money to help people who need it. I agree she should talk to her church about her financial troubles. Our church has helped us out may times in times of hardship.
That’s $3 grand a year if full time and paying on gross.
I guess with her the answer is never.
Isn’t tithing more popular with those that believe in the prosperity gospel stuff? I wonder how many of them see life as the slot machine that is getting ready to pay off? The sermons I’ve heard from a few TV pastors (that all mysteriously seem to come down the same way on tithing) certainly seem to give that impression, but maybe it’s cause I’m a gambler at heart.
The OP should ask her co-worker if she’s just tithing ten percent of her income? Or is she tithing ten percent of her assets like a real Christian would?
I’m an insomniac so I watch these dudes a lot late at night. The funny thing is, the lord always needs you to send him money, but, you make the check out to the preacher…
If this woman is a true believer she should not be coming to you anyways. The Bible says to share our burdens with other believers, not random coworkers.
So as someone said, she needs to get some financial advice and spiritual counseling from her church first.
BTW, Yes, we tithe 10%. But you know, I find that when I’m a faithful tither and I do it with the right attitude (meaning I dont tell anyone or ask for favors), blessings do happen. My car expenses are not as bad, things dont break as much. I get more overtime at work, etc… Not to mention I fully believe in the work of our church and want to support it.
To clarify a bit, we’re in the middle of the bible belt, and the woman is a Southern Baptist. She’s also one of the stupidest people I’ve ever met in my life. I don’t use that word lightly. There isn’t anything in her life that she keeps to herself, and I hear everything every single day.
As the saying goes, “if I weren’t for bad luck, they wouldn’t have any.” Her husband is equally lazy and ignorant. I always think of Pigpen in Charlie Brown who walks around surrounded by a cloud. That’s how I see them–surrounded by a cloud of negativity and misfortune.
I just don’t understand why you would whine to everyone in sight about your bad situation and turn around and hand money over to the church every week. All their tithing hasn’t gotten them anywhere but poorer from what I can see. From what she has said, the church (a large church) has given them money and people have helped in the past, and so have some of our co-workers. It seems that the help has dried up. There is an expectation of effort toward helping yourself, and it doesn’t seem to be happening.
Oh well, I’m venting here because I’m sick of hearing it. It’s the same old poor- me crap all the time.
Oh well, I guess she hasn’t received the help she really needs. She has received money and favors that have gotten her past an immediate crisis, only to find 5 minutes later that she’s in a different, but similar, crisis. And another self-imposed crisis to boot. She doesn’t need money, she needs good advice. But I’m guessing she and her husband both have received the advice and guidance they really need, but they’re not smart enough to heed it.
Oh well.
What can you do? As the saying goes, You can lead a horse to water… Or, as that great philosopher Forrest Gump said, Stupid is as stupid does.
People like them shouldn’t breed.
::blows whistle, yells:: HEY!! YOU!! Out of the gene pool!!
Impatien, I suggest the serenity prayer and do your best to tolerate her stupidity. Good luck.
I knew a woman who had a good job making good money. She was also living in a homeless shelter because she was expected to support her family, who were living in Iran. Every payday, she’d go to some check-cashing place and send the money. I asked her why she did that when she made enough to be able to live on her own, and all she said was that it was her duty as a good daughter to support her family.
Convincing someone that following their religion or their culture is hurting them is one of the hardest things you’re ever going to do.
This is part of why I stopped being a Christian recently.
When I was a kid, a good friend of the family was giving a talk at our church and in the middle of it said something to the effect of “I realized if I can’t afford to live on my current income, I also can’t afford to live on ninety percent of my income, and that’s why I tithe faithfully every week.”
That’s ludicrous. It’s foolishness.
It’s math.
You look at the numbers, and you do the math. None of this moralization about “looking at your blessings” or anything like that will have any good effect. If it makes anyone feel good, it does so only in the sense that drug abuse makes people feel good. It’s a false feeling, not responsive to facts, that will have you “smiling” the whole time the water comes up over your head and drowns you.
How dare you call someone “ungrateful” for worrying about being able to keep a roof over their head. The lady needs help, or needs to learn how to help herself, and needs to stop giving free money to an organization that does not care about what is good for her.
When I think of tithing and donating money to a church itself (rather than an actual charity) I think of a scene in “Boardwalk Empire” when the wife donates a large sum of money to her church. She intended the money to go towards the women’s health outreach she was trying to start up. The priest later thanked her for her generous donation and said they used the money to build a new parish hall.
I’ll agree with the above. If its “required” to the point of missing lots of meals or ANY prescriptions, its a cult and not a religion.
As you can probably guess, I draw/drew the line at meds. Other than that its more a matter/question of faith and what you feel. I’ve missed meals and sold “beloved” possessions to make ends meet after having written the check for my tithe first. And it is indeed the first check I write every pay.
I’ll admit it doesn’t make sense; sometimes living well below the poverty line and still giving 10% of it away. But no matter how bad things are for me, lots of folks have it worse. And the ELCA is pretty good about finding and helping those folks. Does some get wasted? Sure! But I’m giving it freely and after that its (literally) up to God.
Now ------ if I had a chance to talk to your friend, I would discuss that whole “freely given” thing with her. If she complains at all, the gift isn’t of free will and it doesn’t matter if you are an “inspired word of God” type or “unerring word of God” type – it really doesn’t matter if you’re even Christian – gifts not given freely are an affront to God.
I understand what that person was trying to say (if I can infer their intent), and if that’s the conclusion you want to draw, that’s fine and I don’t disagree with it.
And my degree is in Applied Mathematics, too.
Now here’s where you cross the line. If you’re not a person of faith, you likely won’t understand. But to equate faith and blessings with getting a drug fix is offensive to some and ludicrous to others. But you’re entitled to your own opinion.
I was speaking to her being an ungrateful giver, not ungrateful for worrying about making ends meet.
As to the help she needs, I addressed that in my other reply (here, #12).
In my experience, people who tithe have fewer financial problems than those who don’t. This is due (in part) to the fact that tithing forces budgetting, and budgetting forces insight into what you are spending your money on.
Obviously if it is a choice between tithing and becoming homeless, and not tithing and staying indoors, one should be “wise as a serpent as well as innocent as a dove” but that choice does not usually present itself.
You didn’t ask for my opinion and this isn’t IMHO, but I’m going to say this anyway.
This is the kind of sentiment is exactly why I fell out of my parent’s religion. They are also Christians, and they are given to this kind of sanctimony. “If you’re unhappy with life, you must not love the Lord the way I do!”
If God is that petty that he’ll castigate you for simply being unhappy with your misfortune–for not feelng the right way–then God is a douchebag. Yes, things can always be worse. The guy who is living under the bridge is better off than the guy on the sidewalk, who is better off than the guy in the gutter. But if I’m living under a bridge, I’ll be damned if I’m going to put on a fake smile just to appease the invisible sky pixie who refuses to help me unless I say the right combination of magical prayer words.
Back in the day, my father would yell at us for crying whenever he’d whup our behinds. “I’ll give you something to really cry about!” he’d say. Which only made the tears flow more freely. But even I don’t think he wanted us to smile. Because that would have been straight-up creepy.
I don’t think a loving god would fault someone for their emotional reaction to hardship. Nor do I think a loving entity would fault someone for offering a sacrifice out of a sense of duty and obligation rather than love. Because a loving god would appreciate that people can’t help how they feel, and that sometimes life really and truly SUCKS. Even wrathful Old Testament God didn’t judge Job for crying out in pain, because he recognized this basic truth.
But my parents preached about a god that does police feelings and penalizes people for not feeling the “right” way. That god is a dick. I can’t love such a monster.
