I have been pulled over twice while I was carrying with a CCW permit. Once in Arizona, where I got my permit. It was a bullshit stop, IMO, he just wanted to look me over because I was wearing “gang” colors. Scarlet and gold. Shakes head.
So, I just stood with my hands on the handlebars (bike shut off) and when the cop came to me, he had his hand on his gun. That was kinda scary. He asked if I was carrying and I said yes and asked him how he wanted to do it. He told me to show me where it was, so I pointed at my jacket. Then he told me to slowly take it out, so I did. When he saw the cross draw holster pocket on my jacket, he was so impressed that he ignored the gun and wanted to know who had done it for me.
No ticket that time.
The second time was in Texas. I was driving a car with AZ plates and tinted window. Another bullshit stop IMO, but he had a job to do. I could have been smuggling people to Iowa or something. I sat with my hands on the steering wheel and when he came up to the window, I told him that my wallet was in my purse.
He was very nice, btw. When I gave him my license and CCW card, he said “thank you for showing me this. Are you carrying now?”
The end result was that I put my gun on the passenger seat of my car and went and set in his car while he called it in.
Both encounters were probably more scary for the cops who dealt with me.
I’d not take any chances and tell the officer immediately that you are carrying a weapon (presumably with a permit for it); the type, where it is located and whether it has a round chambered or not. I’d do this while sitting with both hands on the wheel. If it is night, I’d turn on the dome lights as well.
FWIW, years ago I was first on the scene of a rollover accident of a drunk driver that nearly took my car out while trying to pass me totally out of control. When I opened the driver’s door I was first overcome by the alcohol fumes coming from the driver, then I found he was beat senseless by the many full oil cans flying around inside the car, from the case of motor oil in the back seat. At his feet was a fine specimen of an engraved Browning Hi-Power. I quietly took it out from under him and stuck it into my belt, under my sweater, just to be sure he did not do something stupid. When the cops arrived and started to take my information, I raised my hands and told the cop that I had the driver’s handgun under my sweater. He asked me to hand it to him butt first, which I did. He found it had a round chambered and the safety off. He ended up writing up the driver for driving with an unlicensed weapon in the car, as well as DUI.
It only occurred to me later that had I simply taken the gun and walked back to my car and drove off, the driver would have never known who I was. There was no one else there at the time and he was too drunk to even know what I’d been driving - he never even saw my car, as it turns out.
But I’m glad it went the way it did. I’m no thief, even if the guy did narrowly miss killing me.
Every stop is different, but both of these sound idiotic. When someone tells me they have a weapon and where it is, I have them keep it there unless extenuating circumstances apply. Why on Earth would I have someone unsecure their weapon from a holster or pocket and let them handle it in my presence?
I tell [legally] armed folks to keep their hands on the wheel and keep their gun where it is. If I need it to be off of them for whatever reason, I’ll take it off of them.
This is just an example of how police training varies across the country.
I would not phrase it that way. His rookie partner on the other side of the car will hear "…gun…’ and freak out.
I would say, “Sir/ma’am, before I take my hands off the steering wheel, I need to tell you that I have a CCW permit and am legally armed. How do you want to proceed?”
Then follow the cop’s instructions very carefully.
Yes, many counties in CA issue permits, just not the most populated ones. Most enthusiasts will encourage you to say that you have nothing illegal in the car. This is factual, and it doesn’t give probable cause to search.
Some gun boards are blocked at work, so I don’t have a good cite, but there is People v. Lafitte (1989). A legal knife in plain view permitted a protective search of the entire vehicle. This followed the plain view doctrine.
Admitting you have a firearm or are transporting a firearm trumps plain view. Here is a document from the Alameda County District Attorney’s office (PDF), talking about searches of vehicles, from page 14 of the document:
(footnote 123 refers to Michigan v. Long (1983) 463 U.S. 1032, 1051-52)
1 is satisfied with the vehicle stop.
2 is satisfied when you admit to a firearm in the vehicle.
3 is satisfied because you are in the vehicle.
So yes, if you are pulled over, and you admit to having a firearm, police will have probable cause to search your person and your vehicle.
“I have nothing illegal in the car”
“that’s not what I asked you, do you have any firearms in the vehicle?”
“I have nothing illegal in the car”
It’s a dickish answer, but most gun owners in CA will either have to give a dickish answer like that, refuse to answer, or lie. What would you choose?
I’m not sure what I should do if an LEO asks me to remove my handgun from my holster. On the one hand, I am supposed to follow orders from an LEO if I am detained. On the other hand, the last thing I want to do is touch my handgun in the presence of an LEO. What if I pull out my handgun too quickly, or I accidently sweep him with my muzzle? Will he think I am going to shoot him, and will he respond accordingly? What if I am nervous, and I accidently pull the trigger and have a negligent discharge?
If I tell the LEO, “I do not want to touch my handgun,” how will the LEO respond? Will I be charged with disobeying an LEO?
just to add to the general discussion. Don’t wait to get your license out. get it out before the officer walks up. take your keys out and put them on the dash, roll your window down and if it’s dark out put your dome light on so the officer can see into the car.
It’s probably O.K. to get your license out beforehand. But I would *not *get your proof of insurance or registration out beforehand (which are probably located in your glove compartment).
After you come to a stop, you should not be fiddling or rummaging around in an effort to retrieve your proof of insurance and registration. Because from the LEO’s perspective, it looks like you may be getting a weapon.
After you pull over you should shut off your engine, roll down the window, turn on the dome light, and then immediately place both hands high up on the steering wheel. When the LEO walks up to the window, tell him/her that you have a concealed weapon (if your state requires it). When the LEO asks for DL, proof of insurance, and registration, say, “My registration and proof of insurance are in my glove box. May I get them?” And then get them when he/she gives you permission.
That probably works out a lot better than saying
“Nuclear bombs? Oh, no. None of those.”
Though your option does risk a tedious lecture about how both fission and fusion bombs are properly considered nuclear, as the reactions occur within the nuclei, but ‘atomic’ is a poor description, since even chemical reactions are properly atomic phenomena.
If you want the officer to know you have a concealed weapon, and to understand that you have successfully completed classes on its use, just holler, “I HAVE A GUN AND I KNOW HOW TO USE IT” as the officer approaches your vehicle.
Bone, your cites are old, prior to more recent court decisions regarding searches, and before many states had lawful means to carry weapons in a vehicle.
More importantly, your cites are about people illegally carrying/illegally having weapons in a vehicle. My post after your last post was about people who were legally carrying/transporting weapons.
I’m quite sure that you right. I was just doing what the nice man told me to do. My reasons for carrying are my own, and I honestly pray that I will never, ever have to point my gun at a human. I seriously do not want to ever kill anyone, but if I’m scared enough to point it, I will shoot.
There is no reason for me to shoot a cop for a traffic stop, but of course, you don’t know that. So, I will do what you tell me to do. And I’ll say please and thank you while I’m doing it.
Bolding mine. If you are carrying a handgun, you need to be in control of the muzzle always. Actually, if you are handling any gun, you need to be in control of the muzzle. Any responsible gun owner knows this. Besides, it would be an idiot gun owner who drew his gun in front of a cop with his finger on the trigger. That’s what trigger guards are for.
I watched a friend get pulled over by what must have been a rookie. The car was old and my friend must have looked scary, because the cop said “PUT YOUR HANDS ON THE WHEEL! OPEN THE WINDOW!”
My friend put his hands on the wheel and asked “OK, open the window now?”
Another friend of mine wondered why cops got all upset when he was pulled over, and before they approached, he got out of his car. I explained that they’re trained to control the situation, which they can best do if you do NOTHING unless specifically told to do so.
Bottom line is, make it easy for the cops to do their jobs, by following instructions as simply as possible.
pkleo, just about every time I’ve been pulled over (maybe a dozen?), the first words out of the officer’s mouth was “Do you know why I pulled you over?”
This. As anyone who handles any kind of weapons should know. I learned as a kid, hunting with my dad and from NRA riflery at the Y. It was drilled into us, over and over. And then over again. Just as it should!
It got ingrained enough in me that I cringe in most cowboy movies, since many actors don’t seem to have learned to handle a firearm properly. I sure hope they behave differently when they’re not handling props.
I’ll never forget watching Pulp Fiction, as John Travolta is waving the handgun around and I’m almost crawling out of my skin. The gun goes off and the car fills with blood spatter. “I SAID I was sorry!” lol
More specifically, from the officer’s perspective, a suspect getting out of his car is taking the first step toward wresting control of the situation from the officer by
A) fleeing on foot, or
B) physically assaulting the officer.
